Exhaust flap gets stuck in closed position- help

[JaguarXF-2018]

Hello, I recently took delivery of a F-Type P340 year 2018. Upon driving the car home I noticed a squeaking coming at low revs and later I found the culprit are the exhaust valves. Upon closer inspection one valve is normally opening/closing but the other one gets stuck when it closes, meaning that the rod is pushed in and doesn't come out until you move it with your hand. The pneumatic system is not able to get it unstuck.

My question is this: is it normal that one valve gets stuck in the closed position? I am wondering if this is a design feature and it opens later when the revs are higher with vibrations, etc.

As always I am very grateful for your help.

 

[cj10jeeper]

It's not normal and a common problem of one or both of the valves seizing up. In fact later models had a revised parts fitted

Run a search on 'sticking exhaust valve' and you'll see lots of threads about it from replacement of the whole back box to diy fixes to free off the actuator rods

Before going any further did you buy from a car dealer? if so get them to replace the system either under warranty or consumer law. It will cost c£1,600 for the box plus fitting, so not something you want to do yourself

 

[Philb280]

Sorry to jump in but mine have started squeaking, did get under and lubricate but it’s back again . It’s on an extended Jag warranty but I was under the impression this was no longer covered?? Might be wrong though .

 

[cj10jeeper]

Sorry to jump in but mine have started squeaking, did get under and lubricate but it’s back again . It’s on an extended Jag warranty but I was under the impression this was no longer covered?? Might be wrong though .

You'd have to read the wording of each and any specific warranty as to what is covered or excluded. You may well be correct for your policy.
Specifically my post was aimed at JaguarXF-2018 who has just 'taken delivery'. Regardless of if any warranty covers it during first 6 months the fault is covered under consumer law as deemed to be to pre-existing from the time of sale.
I had mine replaced by non Jaguar seller at a Jaguar dealership (under a Marshalls Jaguar warranty) proving the point and have had other claims over recent years inc. a new dual mass clutch on a BMW that was excluded from the warranty paid out.

 

[MajorTom]

It's not normal and a common problem of one or both of the valves seizing up. In fact later models had a revised parts fitted

Run a search on 'sticking exhaust valve' and you'll see lots of threads about it from replacement of the whole back box to diy fixes to free off the actuator rods

Before going any further did you buy from a car dealer? if so get them to replace the system either under warranty or consumer law. It will cost c£1,600 for the box plus fitting, so not something you want to do yourself

This. If I recall correctly the Jaguar Approved Warranty on the German market wouldn't cover this, but since you got it from a German dealer this is definitely on the dealer under consumer law.

By the way does anyone know when the valve design changed? I was pretty sure that these facelift cars have the updated design.

 

[RPSN]

It's not normal and a common problem of one or both of the valves seizing up. In fact later models had a revised parts fitted

By the way does anyone know when the valve design changed? I was pretty sure that these facelift cars have the updated design.

Here you go.....https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5731

 

[JaguarXF-2018]

Thank you for your help. The JLR dealer I got the car from is a real ba***rd and is denying any issue. That’s why I wanted to check with you if the valve should always operate smoothly or is there a catch that makes it stick at low revs. Anyway, I will now pursue to have this amended under warranty or consumer law.

What upsets me most is that I asked specifically about exhaust valve operation and the dealer replied “everything is perfect”. Now I lost two weeks for the dealer to “check” my detailed videos only to come back with “get used to the squeaking noise, we wont cover that and the valve is operating normally”. I thought the customer care would be better at this price point but sadly not.

Sorry about the rant

 

[Tel]

Hello, I recently took delivery of a F-Type P340 year 2018. Upon driving the car home I noticed a squeaking coming at low revs and later I found the culprit are the exhaust valves. Upon closer inspection one valve is normally opening/closing but the other one gets stuck when it closes, meaning that the rod is pushed in and doesn't come out until you move it with your hand. The pneumatic system is not able to get it unstuck.

My question is this: is it normal that one valve gets stuck in the closed position? I am wondering if this is a design feature and it opens later when the revs are higher with vibrations, etc.

As always I am very grateful for your help.

Screen Shot 2023-01-06 at 13.50.09.png

Lord knows what has been sprayed on them to keep them lubricated?
Looks like white grease....that will make them stick, it's far to viscous.

I use

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ONE-Professional-Performance-Lubricant-400ml/dp/B000Y8Q6SI/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=3%2Bin%2B1%2Bptfe&qid=1673080607&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

Lay under the car ( or get the butler to!) and work the valve with your fingers, whilst applying this liberally to the joint and the actual rotating hinge that runs through the centre of the exhaust tube - takes some patience and persistence, but a few days of that plus the odd squirt for preventative maintenance, works for me.

IMPORTANT - This procedure will not appear in any JLR document or handbook - Purely experienced based and for info only

 

[JaguarXF-2018]

The white stuff is high temp ceramic grease and it worked well to lubricate and free the mechanism. The valve that gets stuck has a physical click but is otherwise very easy to move. The physical click seems to be from the inside of the exhaust pipe and that’s something that is not reachable.

Thank you for your inputs.

 

[Tel]

The white stuff is high temp ceramic grease and it worked well to lubricate and free the mechanism. The valve that gets stuck has a physical click but is otherwise very easy to move. The physical click seems to be from the inside of the exhaust pipe and that’s something that is not reachable.

Thank you for your inputs.

Sounds like the flap has pushed up a burr inside the pipe or vice vesa.

Do you have an endoscope?

If you can see anything then you might try a needle file fixed to something long enough to allow you to reach the area to relieve it?

 

[MajorTom]

I've dealt with many different JLR dealers over the years and it's incredible what a hit and miss they can be. Feel free to name and shame when you're done with this dealer.

Thanks for that link RPSN. Interesting, given the presumed update of the design in early 2017 this would be a (rare?) example of a failure of the revised valve design.

 

[JaguarXF-2018]

I have the V6 so the flaps are before the back box and probably not that easy to get to.. I plan to get an endoscope to inspect the catalysators when they probably have to take off the back box to repair the valves.

 

[RPSN]

Thanks for that link RPSN. Interesting, given the presumed update of the design in early 2017 this would be a (rare?) example of a failure of the revised valve design.

As the Jaguar Special Service Message (SSM) https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5731 includes the following....

“Last modified: 23-Jan-2017

Issue: Customers may report either a ‘squeak’ noise coming from the rear of the vehicle when the active exhaust valve is requested to open or close.

Cause: The active exhaust valve spindle shaft and bush contact area partially seize or in some extreme cases full seizure occurs.

Action: Parts have now been updated to include a Graphite Collar and bullet spindle to prevent this failure and are in service stock.”

....I would think the updated parts do their job so I’m wondering if a pre-January 2017 manufactured exhaust was fitted to the OP’s ‘P340 year 2018’?

 

[Malbec]

Both of the actuators on my V6S have sheared away from the valves. They may work but they are no longer connected to the valves which either flap around or are stuck. JLR won’t cover this with my extended warranty and want £2k to replace the box. There is nothing wrong with the box just the actuators which are part of it. I don’t care about the noise but annoyed that it’s seen as an exhaust failure rather than an actuator failure.

 

[cj10jeeper]

I have the V6 so the flaps are before the back box and probably not that easy to get to.. I plan to get an endoscope to inspect the catalysators when they probably have to take off the back box to repair the valves.

The back boxes don't get repaired by dealers as the flaps and actuators are integral to it, rather they change the entire unit. Last prices I saw were £1,600 and a couple of hours labour. That's what was done on mine in very similar circumstances as you have.

Personally aside investigation for your own understanding I wouldn't touch the boxes yourself, nor lubricate (save this for later if you concede). Just go armed with knowledge of the bulletin, confirming the issue and preparedness to start a small claims action in court under the consumer law. I'm sure the dealer will have a change of tone, after the sadly typical from some dealers initial dismissive tone.

 

[RPSN]

The JLR dealer I got the car from is a real ba***rd and is denying any issue. That’s why I wanted to check with you if the valve should always operate smoothly or is there a catch that makes it stick at low revs. Anyway, I will now pursue to have this amended under warranty or consumer law.

What upsets me most is that I asked specifically about exhaust valve operation and the dealer replied “everything is perfect”. Now I lost two weeks for the dealer to “check” my detailed videos only to come back with “get used to the squeaking noise, we wont cover that and the valve is operating normally”. I thought the customer care would be better at this price point but sadly not.

As the JLR main dealer is giving you a hard time over this, have you raised your concerns with JLR's complaints department? I've previously had success with them over another issue.
https://www.complaintsdepartment.co.uk/jaguar-uk/
email: [email protected]
Tel: 0345 303 2303

The valve that gets stuck has a physical click but is otherwise very easy to move. The physical click seems to be from the inside of the exhaust pipe and that’s something that is not reachable.

I have the V6 so the flaps are before the back box and probably not that easy to get to.. I plan to get an endoscope to inspect the catalysators when they probably have to take off the back box to repair the valves.

To give you an insight on the operation of the gate valves inside the V6 rear active exhaust, have a look at this excellent DIY video which shows how a seized valve was freed....https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=61138#p61138
You can understand how peed off the owner was when the JLR main dealer charged him £1,850 for fitting a new rear active exhaust box and to add insult to injury did a botch job of removing the old one!

 

[V8esp]

Had the same issue, Jaguar won't replace under their extended warranty as the exhaust is not covered. In the end I had both valves replaced with Italian valves from a exhaust manufacturer in Leeds.. lifetime guarantee.

 

[JaguarXF-2018]

Thank you all for your inputs, I am now in the process of getting this amended under the dealer warranty. Will report back if they give me more undue resistance.

Until then I put a plug on the valves to keep them always open. This stops the annoying squeaking but is too loud.

Does anyone know if there can be any damage to the engine or catalyst if the exhaust flaps are always in their closed positions?

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your inputs, I am now in the process of getting this amended under the dealer warranty. Will report back if they give me more undue resistance.

Until then I put a plug on the valves to keep them always open. This stops the annoying squeaking but is too loud.

Does anyone know if there can be any damage to the engine or catalyst if the exhaust flaps are always in their closed positions?

I purchased my car with the exhaust flaps fault. Upon start I could hear a metallic grating for a couple of seconds. Thought it was normal

Only after owning the car for about a year did I realise something was missing. I purchased a brand new OEM back box. Yes the cost was painful but the realisation, that my magic noise button now worked, made up for it

I now use my painful experience to warn prospective buyers.

Definitely no damage caused to engine It’s just noise.

 

[JaguarXF-2018]

UPDATE: After much back and forth the dealer from Germany who sold me the car has replaced the complete muffler under warranty. The exhaust valves can not be replaced as separate items.