Interesting News Article…
- Thread starter Robbyrner
- Start date
I’ve read a variety of takes on it, over the recent couple of years.
Sadly, I think Jaguar’ve collectively lost the plot.
From the canning of the XJ-replacement, to announcing the full all-electric plans, they’ve totalled their reputation IMHO.
Even the gestation period for the all-electric XK (or whatever it’ll be called?) has been long, slow and difficult.
Other manufacturers have released battery-powered vehicles far, far quicker thus capturing the valuable headspace of the market place; what’s holding Jaguar back? Are they reinventing the wheel?
Less than a year before the announcement my local dealer had invested heavily in a dealership makeover, only to face the news that the mothership would be reducing the number of dealer outlets once the battery stuff was on the way through. Super. Not.
You’ll be buying your high-end, super luxury Jaguar direct from a website, eh? I somehow doubt it.
Folk who have that sort of money (£130K?) to spunk on a car, want some sort of personal interaction and assistance, they don’t want to deal through a hundred-dollar, flakey web site, coloured in hues of dark blue where you can’t even see the car properly…
Rant over
And never trust a Frenchman……
Sadly, I think Jaguar’ve collectively lost the plot.
From the canning of the XJ-replacement, to announcing the full all-electric plans, they’ve totalled their reputation IMHO.
Even the gestation period for the all-electric XK (or whatever it’ll be called?) has been long, slow and difficult.
Other manufacturers have released battery-powered vehicles far, far quicker thus capturing the valuable headspace of the market place; what’s holding Jaguar back? Are they reinventing the wheel?
Less than a year before the announcement my local dealer had invested heavily in a dealership makeover, only to face the news that the mothership would be reducing the number of dealer outlets once the battery stuff was on the way through. Super. Not.
You’ll be buying your high-end, super luxury Jaguar direct from a website, eh? I somehow doubt it.
Folk who have that sort of money (£130K?) to spunk on a car, want some sort of personal interaction and assistance, they don’t want to deal through a hundred-dollar, flakey web site, coloured in hues of dark blue where you can’t even see the car properly…
Rant over
And never trust a Frenchman……
stefan9107
New member
Moss said:I’ve read a variety of takes on it, over the recent couple of years.
Sadly, I think Jaguar’ve collectively lost the plot.
From the canning of the XJ-replacement, to announcing the full all-electric plans, they’ve totalled their reputation IMHO.
Even the gestation period for the all-electric XK (or whatever it’ll be called?) has been long, slow and difficult.
Other manufacturers have released battery-powered vehicles far, far quicker thus capturing the valuable headspace of the market place; what’s holding Jaguar back? Are they reinventing the wheel?
Less than a year before the announcement my local dealer had invested heavily in a dealership makeover, only to face the news that the mothership would be reducing the number of dealer outlets once the battery stuff was on the way through. Super. Not.
You’ll be buying your high-end, super luxury Jaguar direct from a website, eh? I somehow doubt it.
Folk who have that sort of money (£130K?) to spunk on a car, want some sort of personal interaction and assistance, they don’t want to deal through a hundred-dollar, flakey web site, coloured in hues of dark blue where you can’t even see the car properly…
Rant over
And never trust a Frenchman……
I mean this is exactly it.
As we move more and more into the "electric future" there is less and less that sets these cars apart. They will all have roughly the same range, roughly the same speed and acceleration and heavy but low centre of gravity driving dynamics. The vast majority seem to be aiming at the upper price figures and going with the "luxury" target, with very little interest in trying to make cheaper cars for the everyman/woman. Heard on the podcast today that the Kia EV9 is going to start from £65k and the one worth having will be £73k+ . For a bloody Kia! And I'm sure it'll be a great car, most Kia's are these days, but then why is anyone going to choose the Jag equivalent over the Kia one? Because the Jaguar brand stands for something more? Like fuck it does. Amongst the general population the JLR brand means two things. Theft and unreliability. In a normal world low volume and high priced cars would be the answer, but that is what ALL the manufacturers are doing, including all the new upstarts like Rivian or Lucid etc.
A
Anonymous
Guest
It almost feels like Jaguar announced an all electric future first, followed by a cost of living crisis, then the gov announced it would extend the ban on new petrol sales from 2030 to 2035 and whilst Jaguar have managed to produce nothing, not even a picture or press release, Tesla and lots of upcoming brands have swamped a market that is probably pretty much maxed out for choice.
A lot of electric cars on the road are leases or via company car schemes like Octopus but a £100k+ Jaguar isn't going to sell many unless it has an amazing feature like 1000bhp, 600 mile range, 5yr warranty etc. Which I don't think it will.
The cars are pretty much all similar so my thinking is I might as buy a BYD Seal with 530bhp, 5 seats and with every option ticked sub £48k. If I am spending £100k+ on an SUV then I'll have a Range Rover. If I want a sports car, well I've already got one thanks.
A lot of electric cars on the road are leases or via company car schemes like Octopus but a £100k+ Jaguar isn't going to sell many unless it has an amazing feature like 1000bhp, 600 mile range, 5yr warranty etc. Which I don't think it will.
The cars are pretty much all similar so my thinking is I might as buy a BYD Seal with 530bhp, 5 seats and with every option ticked sub £48k. If I am spending £100k+ on an SUV then I'll have a Range Rover. If I want a sports car, well I've already got one thanks.
WShudds
New member
"We just knew that we didn’t want to be another volume luxury brand, that is not something that aligns with the Jaguar philosophy." Jaguar had "succeed" already and stopped being a volume luxury brand given the low sales of the current range. Someone then decided to give up a small market share for nearly nothing? How can anyone justify this decision?
There's barely any market for basic EVs, it's ludicrous to imagine Jaguar can survive selling luxury electric SUVs. Lotus has a better chance.
There's barely any market for basic EVs, it's ludicrous to imagine Jaguar can survive selling luxury electric SUVs. Lotus has a better chance.
simpleR said:
That’s what I see, too.
I appreciate some of the global events of the past few years have not been advantageous to the brand - they’ve been consistently caught between a rock and a hard place - but every decision they’ve made seems to have been the wrong one. Every proverbial crossroads has given Jaguar the opportunity to take a wrong turn (and they took it
).Gen-Z or whatever younger kids are known by these days, will have been awed by a whole variety of other Mickey Mouse marques, masquerading as pseudo-SUVs and the term Jaguar will mean absolutely zilch to them.
Will they aspire to the excitement and differential that Jaguar once stood for?
Gerry McGovern did play a significant role in successfully devaluing the brand last year when speaking to the press:
"Speaking with investors during a meeting held in Gaydon, JLR Chief Creative Officer Gerry McGovern was brutally honest with the current state of Jaguar. He admitted past decisions have hurt the company as the attempt to create a British BMW by attracting as many luxury car buyers as possible has been unsuccessful. Doing so has downgraded the automaker into "mediocrity" with "no equity whatsoever"
People have been brainwashed into driving (I did toy with buying then owning but the majority of people would be renting them) an EV thinking they're doing their bit for the planet, driving around looking smug, the majority of them not having a clue where the leccy comes from to power it or what happens at end of life. Jaguar used to be seen as a prestige brand, a heritage of bank robberies, and being driven by cads and bounders, people with a bit of character
It's a tough time for all manufacturers out there, targets to meet from various Governments and Boards of Directors, material costs, supply chain issues, not knowing which way to go with the drivetrain etc. It's a huge investment and if you get it wrong then you're dead. I wish Jaguar had stuck with manufacturing sports/GT cars instead of getting involved with a diluted market full of dull SUV's; find what you're good at, specialise in it then you can charge more
"Speaking with investors during a meeting held in Gaydon, JLR Chief Creative Officer Gerry McGovern was brutally honest with the current state of Jaguar. He admitted past decisions have hurt the company as the attempt to create a British BMW by attracting as many luxury car buyers as possible has been unsuccessful. Doing so has downgraded the automaker into "mediocrity" with "no equity whatsoever"
People have been brainwashed into driving (I did toy with buying then owning but the majority of people would be renting them) an EV thinking they're doing their bit for the planet, driving around looking smug, the majority of them not having a clue where the leccy comes from to power it or what happens at end of life. Jaguar used to be seen as a prestige brand, a heritage of bank robberies, and being driven by cads and bounders, people with a bit of character
It's a tough time for all manufacturers out there, targets to meet from various Governments and Boards of Directors, material costs, supply chain issues, not knowing which way to go with the drivetrain etc. It's a huge investment and if you get it wrong then you're dead. I wish Jaguar had stuck with manufacturing sports/GT cars instead of getting involved with a diluted market full of dull SUV's; find what you're good at, specialise in it then you can charge more
scm
New member
Kev said:
I read somewhere that road transportation accounts for only 10% of global emissions so even if all private transport was "clean" electricity, it wouldn't make much difference to global warming. I know "every little helps" but it'd be better to focus on the major contributors, surely? And building EVs is pretty resource intensive and the battery requirement is huge compared to home energy use. Not the answer, I'm afraid - it could turn out as successful as persuading everyone that diesels were the answer, and that went well, didn't it?
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Anonymous
Guest
Methane accounts for 30% of global warming and lasts longer than CO2 as per recent methane satellite monitoring launch.
Derivative
New member
This won't have helped...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-68500233
I infer the 'throttle' must have stuck on as well otherwise it would have come to a halt relatively soon on a motorway with no power and just coasting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-68500233
I infer the 'throttle' must have stuck on as well otherwise it would have come to a halt relatively soon on a motorway with no power and just coasting.
cj10jeeper
New member
I saw this article. Very odd as they are powerful (400bhp) twin motor cars so must have been cruise control or equivalent failing to cancel, else it would surely have throttled up to full speed of 124mph, or trundled along on idleDerivative said:
Scary even if nobody around on a motorway. Not good pr for JLR though
scm
New member
There have been few "unexplained accelerations" reported on the UK I-Pace forum, resulting in total loss of the car (not life, fortunately). Used to be ICEV autos where the driver stamps on the throttle by mistake to stop it. Maybe we can counter the "more ICEVs than EVs catch fire" with "more EVs than ICEVs run out of control". Though an ICEV running out of control will go a lot further before exhausting its fuel load! :lol:
Derivative
New member
Jaguandy said:
Or at least Ctrl + Alt + Del
A
Anonymous
Guest
I've read through the "unintended acceleration" articles on the ipace forums and various news articles. Also how the ipace pedals are slight to the left compared to usual cars.
I think I can make two statements without getting into trouble!
1) Car launches into something when driving at slow speeds.
If you could get a video of the rear of the car, I would expect to see the following: no brake lights, slight acceleration, massive acceleration, impact followed by brake lights.
= Wrong Pedal
2) Car acceleration not inputted by driver on open roads. If you read the statement from the full news article. I was driving along the motorway and after moving out to overtake, the car started to speed up and then slowed down before speeding up again this kept happening.
= Automatic cruise control is engaged
There isn't no way you can drive at the reported 90mph to 120mph for 35 minutes on a busy motorway with no control of speed with no brakes and no control of accelerator. And that's 35 minutes with the Police trying to sort it out. They must of covered more than 60 miles if you take into account the amount of time it would of took a police car to catch up. That has to be ACC controlling the speed otherwise they would of just crashed into the back of the first car. I would guess they had ACC enabled at 110mph as that explains the acceleration.
If the brake pedal wasn't working then ACC would continue to be engaged. If they switched off cruise then it would of glided to a nice steady stop.
Out of all the posts online from folks with unintended acceleration, none returned with a formal report or answer.
I think I can make two statements without getting into trouble!
1) Car launches into something when driving at slow speeds.
If you could get a video of the rear of the car, I would expect to see the following: no brake lights, slight acceleration, massive acceleration, impact followed by brake lights.
= Wrong Pedal
2) Car acceleration not inputted by driver on open roads. If you read the statement from the full news article. I was driving along the motorway and after moving out to overtake, the car started to speed up and then slowed down before speeding up again this kept happening.
= Automatic cruise control is engaged
There isn't no way you can drive at the reported 90mph to 120mph for 35 minutes on a busy motorway with no control of speed with no brakes and no control of accelerator. And that's 35 minutes with the Police trying to sort it out. They must of covered more than 60 miles if you take into account the amount of time it would of took a police car to catch up. That has to be ACC controlling the speed otherwise they would of just crashed into the back of the first car. I would guess they had ACC enabled at 110mph as that explains the acceleration.
If the brake pedal wasn't working then ACC would continue to be engaged. If they switched off cruise then it would of glided to a nice steady stop.
Out of all the posts online from folks with unintended acceleration, none returned with a formal report or answer.
cj10jeeper
New member
Agree ^ with your point 2. As per my previous post it had to be cruise control locking on.
Looking again at the photo in the article it doesn’t look like there was any heavy contact so I suspect the police simply ran in front and lowly lowered speed until the ACC slowed the car no a stop. Perhaps it disengaged at low speed and stopped. Other police around to hold back other traffic.
Shocking though to be unable to disengage manually nor by touching the brake pedal, or even knock auto into neutral..
Looking again at the photo in the article it doesn’t look like there was any heavy contact so I suspect the police simply ran in front and lowly lowered speed until the ACC slowed the car no a stop. Perhaps it disengaged at low speed and stopped. Other police around to hold back other traffic.
Shocking though to be unable to disengage manually nor by touching the brake pedal, or even knock auto into neutral..
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Anonymous
Guest
Apparently it ran out of battery and slowed to a stop with light contact at the end for a full stop.
cj10jeeper
New member
haha - that's a lucky escape and explains the lack of any real contact.simpleR said:
