Shaking steering wheel while braking? Need help!

[Jlsthlm]

Hey guys,

I have a irritating problem. My steering wheel is shaking while braking *when my brakes are warm*.

I've just got back from a tour to the Swiss and Italian alps (Stelvio pass included) and also took a lap on the Nürburgring Nordschleife on my way back. When going downhill in the alps, when braking more than just occasionally on the autobahn and after like 3 turns on the Nordschleife, the shaking starts. If I let the brakes cool down, it stops.

The thing is: I knew I had this problem, so before leaving on the trip I changed all four brake pads and all four brake discs to brand new genuine parts at an authorized Jaguar workshop in order to get rid of the problem as I figured it must be a warped disc or something. As soon as I reached the autobahn 1 day of driving later, I realized the problem was still there (!).

Videos of it happening here: https://we.tl/tRELRvehfW

So what on earth can this be? It can't be the discs as they are brand new, and the problem persisted after changing both pads and discs. Grateful for any help or guidance!

Cheers,

Jonas

 

[Senninha]

Hi,

One assumes you put the new pads and discs through an appropriate bedding in process and several heat cycles before heading off for your driving experience ... if yes, you can cross disc warp off the potential list ...

If Jag fitted them then one would hope they cleaned the hubs before mounting the new discs ... a small amount of debris could result in the feeling you describe, particular when used in anger and heated up ....

Are they pulling up evenly? If they are out of balance L to R then again this could create the experience you describe ....

Food for thought and hope you resolve soon and safely ...

 

[Anonymous]

My friend has an M3 E46 which had the same. Brakes swapped and same issue. Brakes straight and true. Worn suspension bushes was the cause of their steering wheel wobble.

 

[cj10jeeper]

You’re going to be embarking on a long excercise of elimination of items from worn bearings, suspension bushes, shockers, tyre pressure and wear, non bedded pads, dirt on mating flanges and a slew more.
Problem can be front or rear

I don’t think you can diagnose on the internet but would certainly start with a bedding in cycle in pads and disks

 

[Dan_Veluwe]

Jonas,

- how old is your car ;
- whats your odometer saying [ how many kms did it ride sofar];
- dou you drive it in winter [ salt ];

High km's or old age , or many, many bends, gives lead to bushings and rubbers.
But as it seems to be related to the temperature of the brakes, I guess if its run in winter or did many km's,
the pistons of the brake calipers are oval.

Erosion from simple wear or corrosion from salts..

 

[philmayfield]

I had a similar shake but it was cured when the tracking was set up properly.

 

[davidd]

When were your wheels last balanced?

 

[Dan_Veluwe]

@Davidd. If a proper garage replaced the discs, they should have rebalanced the wheels..

 

[cj10jeeper]

@Davidd. If a proper garage replaced the discs, they should have rebalanced the wheels..

You wouldn’t normally rebalance wheels and tyres when changing disks, unless your doing on car wheel balancing

 

[Dan_Veluwe]

You wouldn’t normally rebalance wheels and tyres when changing disks, unless your doing on car wheel balancing

You would if the discs were warped. that generates uneven wear of the tread, hence unbalance the wheels.. ..rebalance required.

 

[cj10jeeper]

You wouldn’t normally rebalance wheels and tyres when changing disks, unless your doing on car wheel balancing

You would if the discs were warped. that generates uneven wear of the tread, hence unbalance the wheels.. ..rebalance required.

Agreed in that part, but warped disks are actually rater than hens teeth.
There’s a lot of good research on the web about how almost all issues of disks relate to pad deposits, worn suspension, alignment, caliper pistons, etc. and it’s the first item that mechanics just swap out as easy money.
This thread has all those hallmarks if hundreds if £’s of disk and pads and clearly they were not required

 

[Dan_Veluwe]

This thread has all those hallmarks if hundreds if £’s of disk and pads and clearly they were not required

Exactly. Thats why I ask the basic questions, milage, much cornering etc etc to know what's relevant.
Just the two clips don't tell us more then that it judders at the wheel. :roll:

But I don't expect it to be alignment if it only occurs after heating up the brakes [ or the tires ] ; both could be causing it, or not..

All the bushings etc don't make a difference with hot/cold brakes too. But it helps to know.

 

[Jlsthlm]

Jonas,

- how old is your car ;
- whats your odometer saying [ how many kms did it ride sofar];
- dou you drive it in winter [ salt ];

High km's or old age , or many, many bends, gives lead to bushings and rubbers.
But as it seems to be related to the temperature of the brakes, I guess if its run in winter or did many km's,
the pistons of the brake calipers are oval.

Erosion from simple wear or corrosion from salts..

My car is MY 2015.
Odometer now at ~40 000 kms.
Never driven in winter/ salt during my ownership - though I bought it used so no idea what the previous owner did.

Thanks for the tip on the caliper pistons. I'll check that out.

/Jonas

 

[Jlsthlm]

When were your wheels last balanced?

I forgot to mention that in the original post, but I also bought new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires a month ago, which was just prior to changing pads and discs. I guess that's when the wheels last got balanced unless the workshop did it when changing the brakes.

 

[Jlsthlm]

Hi,

One assumes you put the new pads and discs through an appropriate bedding in process and several heat cycles before heading off for your driving experience ... if yes, you can cross disc warp off the potential list ...

If Jag fitted them then one would hope they cleaned the hubs before mounting the new discs ... a small amount of debris could result in the feeling you describe, particular when used in anger and heated up ....

Are they pulling up evenly? If they are out of balance L to R then again this could create the experience you describe ....

Food for thought and hope you resolve soon and safely ...

Honestly, I did not put it through an "appropriate bedding in process". I had no clue I was supposed to. But considering I had the problem before changing pads and discs that shouldn't be the cause, right?

I notice no L-R imbalance.

 

[Jlsthlm]

I had a similar shake but it was cured when the tracking was set up properly.

Sorry for sounding remarkably ignorant, but what does "tracking set up properly" mean?

 

[Jlsthlm]

My friend has an M3 E46 which had the same. Brakes swapped and same issue. Brakes straight and true. Worn suspension bushes was the cause of their steering wheel wobble.

Thanks, I'll add that to the list of potential causes!

 

[Dan_Veluwe]

I had a similar shake but it was cured when the tracking was set up properly.

Sorry for sounding remarkably ignorant, but what does "tracking set up properly" mean?

The 'tracking' means the proper alignment of the wheels : they should be 'in line' , meaning when you drive straight all four wheels
rotate in parallel plains. So not 3 going east and one west, to extremely exxagurate the principle. Also there are camber and caster,
toe in / toe out , all to do with wheel 'flight' so that under driving conditions the movements of the wheels don't influence your
course/direction .. There are books full of this stuff, too much to mention here.. :ugeek:

I guess wikipedia has a chapter on it..

This influences wear of tyres. direction stability on braking and accelerating [ more so for front wheel drive cars ].

 

[Jlsthlm]

I had a similar shake but it was cured when the tracking was set up properly.

Sorry for sounding remarkably ignorant, but what does "tracking set up properly" mean?

The 'tracking' means the proper alignment of the wheels : they should be 'in line' , meaning when you drive straight all four wheels
rotate in parallel plains. So not 3 going east and one west, to extremely exxagurate the principle. Also there are camber and caster,
toe in / toe out , all to do with wheel 'flight' so that under driving conditions the movements of the wheels don't influence your
course/direction .. There are books full of this stuff, too much to mention here.. :ugeek:

I guess wikipedia has a chapter on it..

This influences wear of tyres. direction stability on braking and accelerating [ more so for front wheel drive cars ].

Hmm, OK, but the car feels 100 % stable also in very high (Autobahn) speeds, when I'm not braking. Would I not feel such a misalignment also when driving?

Edit: Thanks for the explanation by the way.

 

[Derivative]

+1 for worn suspension bush somewhere. Had similar on my previous car (not F-type). Fine in all other aspects except when braking and then could feel a juddering through the steering wheel.