Power/Idle drops and cut off

O

Optinium

New member
Hi all,

Long time lurker but felt the need to post here rather then my club forum as this place is more F-Type focused. I have an issue and I think I might have it diagnosed but wondering if anyone has anything that might be worth checking before I pull the wallet out. I'll give as much info/story as I can.

I have a 2015 F-Type R (my 3rd one after a V6S Coupe and an awdR convertible), ~34,000 miles, full Jaguar service history.
I purchased it 1 year ago at 30,000 miles from a BMW dealer of all places, they did a service prior to pick up.
On collection day there was a bit of a rough idle but it quickly vanished, I put that down to having barely any fuel and probably sitting for a while.
I ALWAYS use premium fuel, Shell Optimax only, so thats all it's had during my tenure. I use fuel additives ~every full tank, usually Redex injector cleaner, occasionally Wynn's Injector Cleaner Gold... So for the last 4,000 miles it's been supplied with a good drink :D
I have 3 cars and during winter I tend to use my SUV, so the F-Type gets occasional use over the past 4 months but typically short journeys to and from the shops or to see family, no real 'Italian Tune ups' until it's better weather. And with that I've not been giving it a full tank every fill, just £20-30 here or there.

Beginning - So last week, I was doing a trip to the Hospital and to the in-laws, whilst sat idle in the car park,the car just sputtered and cut out... When trying to restart, it would strain, sputter and die. I thought it could be battery, although there was no battery warning. I have a NOCO BoostXL, so used the jump point to try and bring the car to life, same again. I sat for a bit (10 mins) doing some searching and getting on the phone to arrange recovery when I tried one more time and it sprung to life, no issue. I go to my next destination with normal driving and no issues.
After a visit to the in-laws, the car won't start, same display of issues, sputters and dies, sputters and dies. I let the engine cool for about 30 mins and then it springs to life and drives no issues.

Next Trip - I left the car a couple of days and decided to take it for a small trip into town. I'm certain it's not a battery issue, it started fine and stop/start works with no issues. I got stuck in a bout of traffic and at a set of lights the car dies, same again, rough idle, sputters/dies and trying to restart results in the same presentation, sputters/dies. I call my insurance/recovery and whilst I wait at the roadside I decide to get in the car and try to start again to get it out of the road whilst it was safe. It struggles to start and with a bit of revs it's enough to get it going so I can park around the corner. Green Flag turns up, code reder says potential fuel pump issue, he clears it, revs it a chunk and says to have a look at the filter (If I remember right they don't have filters...), anyway it gets me home just fine.

Some Diagnosis - Whislt it's sunny this weekend I thought I'd do a spout of diagnosis before it's MOT is due next week. Remembering I have an iCarsoft reader, I pulled a chunk of codes (see below), a lot of misfires (Cylinder 5,6,7,8) and a few relating to the Fuel system (pressure too high and too low, control unit circuit low). My initial though is it's a clog, potentially from debris as fuel levels have been lower of late. I used from Carlube Carb and Intake cleaner through the Brake Boost Vacuum hose, did a cyle of that, let it heat soak and it seemed to help a bit. I filled with Optimax and used a full bottle of Wynn's Gold and gave it a highway blast for 30 mins. It all seemed great. I got the car washed and decided to go on a backroad blast. With the engine now hot and me giving it some beans in lower gears I was finding that when I was in low gear accelerating to 4-5k there was a MASSIVE rubber band effect (like someone was slamming on the brakes), and it was pretty repeatable. I got it home, let it idle for 15 mins and it seemed fine....

Today - After clearing the codes yesterday, I pulled them again and they were the same. I took it for another drive and everything seemed great, again for around 30 mins of harder driving, then it was starting to drop serious power at high revs (that sharp braking feel again). I got it home, left it running, it seemed fine, I did some work on my S2000 to bring it out of hibernation and when I got back into the F-Type after 45 mins to turn it off, it just sputtered and died... presenting the same symptoms again from last week, won't start etc...

Codes
P228F - Fuel Pressure regulator 1 - Exceeding learning limits - Too High
P0087 - Fuel rail/system pressure - too low
P0300 - Random misfire detected
P0305 - Cylinder 5 misfire detected
P0306 - Cylinder 6 misfire detected
P0307 - Cylinder 7 misfire detected
P0308 - Cylinder 8 misfire detected
P1315 - Persistant Misfire - Catalyst damage
P025C - Fuel Pump Control unit - circuit low
P062A - Fuel Pump A control - circuit range/performance

So all fingers point to the fuel system, so either the supply or link in the chain that supplies that bank of cylinders, probably that particular HP Fuel Pump.

SO I haven't dug super deep mechanically, I've done everything surface level apart from checking fuses. It looks to not be battery related and due to the codes it sounds like it isn't injector related but I can't rule that out completely.

IS there anything I should check before getting my hands dirtier or checking it check by a garage.
I have my own tools but only perf ramps, no access to a lift, so if it's something I can do topside easily I can do it myself.

Any material, advice, knowledge bombs or additional diagrams/reading is much appreciated :)

Thanks for any help in advance
 
Well that's certainly annoying isn't it.
And I assume you don't have it under the Jag warranty.
Others will no doubt come along with better info. but if those 4 cylinders make up one bank on the same side then it does appear to point to a fuel pump - there are 2 on the bottom of the engine and I assume that's one for each bank.
You don't say whereabouts you are, or we could recommend a good local indy if you'd rather they give it a proper diagnosis and first time fix - if anywhere near Tom Lenthall they would soon get it sorted for you.
Good luck, and let us know how you get on.
 
Thanks for the reply Lunar.

I'm in Warrington near Manchester, it is indeed outside of Warranty now, not even a month outside it... I was putting off any potnetial renewal after the MOT as I've been contemplating another car (I tend to cycle my main 'toy' yearly), bad timing all round :( It is what it is :D

I'll be sure to update with any progress made :)
 
The Jaguar warranty people were contacting me, about renewal, for more than a month after expiry. If it has only expired a few weeks ago you might still be able to renew if you wanted to.
 
When were the fuel filters last changed?

Sounds like a simple lack of supply pressure/flow.

Esso top grade is Ethanol zero (even if the pump says otherwise) if you can find it in your area, better than anything with it in.

Ethanol does sod components up, even if they're supposedly E25 proof, especially when sat as it sounds like your motor may have.
 
Tel said:
When were the fuel filters last changed?
Click to expand...

I was under the assumption F-Types don't have fuel filters? I've not found any docs to tell me where they are. Any help on that would be cool as I'd love to give that a shot.

Update - I've replaced the fuse and ordered a new relay just in case. Will go for a drive later and see how it feels just in case the fuse was dodgy (I doubt that).
 
All those symptoms remind me of an XR3i I’d bought, in 1982, when they were first released. Kept cutting out randomly. Ford dealer hadn’t a clue; eventually fault escalated to Dagenham chums who suggested FI relay - which seemingly fixed it.

All the other fault codes may just be as a result of, and non-causative.

On the fuel front, my motorcycle has stood for longer without use with a tank of E10 without complaint over the winter periods.

Good luck with a fix, though.
 
So, like I mentioned in an earlier post, I'd follow up with any evolution of the situation (plus it's nice I think, always annoying when researching a problem and people don't follow up with the answer xD).
I changed the fuses, took it for a drive and got stranded >.< It was at a busy junction and the initial recovery was an attempt at a roadside fix but all they did was point towards the same areas I was looking at. After some more waiting it had to be trailered home :(
91DGqfEl.jpg


Codes, after being cleared, were still fuel system related, so I tried to go to the first point in the chain, with it being intermittant and the 2 codes below, I thought I'd have a go at changing the Fuel Pump Control Module.
P025C - Fuel Pump Control unit - circuit low
P062A - Fuel Pump A control - circuit range/performance

I got a replacement which came from a 2015 R, which was lucky and it was local/tested working. I dashed to pick it up, for the decent price of just £29.99! (they're £200+ new) and got to work with the removal/installation.

Started by moving the chairs into their most forward position, and stripping the interior parts from behind the seats. I have trim removal kit and even then broke a couple of clips, some will likely be brittle so take care. Unclip the seatbelts, pull away the rear center trim, pull the door trims that connect to the kickplates, pull and lift the large single piece at the top (this is the most annoying piece), after that you can tease out the rear panels with the speaker shrouds.
AtNdJOVl.jpg


The black panel hides a lot of the Fuel control gubbins. You can unclip the wires which are bound to the black panel and undo the 2 bolts to remove the silver brace, on a convertible, if I remember right, this houses the roof control box, so you have to unplug/remove that, it's ofcourse absent here as it's a coupe. After undoing all the bolts you'll need a pry tool to pull the black panel off as it is also glued in place.
s7LIFV1l.jpg


With the panel removed we can peer in.
tUgneYyl.jpg


At this point I disconnected the battery as you're about to start unplugging stuff.
This large connector in the foreground is mounted onto a slide clip, you'll want to pull that off and also unscrew and remove the plastic push clip to the left of it, that holds the fuel pump module in situ.
5BkIdoZl.jpg


The module then needs to be unplugged and slides out
mhahUwil.jpg


This is what the module looks like and you can see the part number at the top. It's used in a lot of Jag's from the early 2000's up until the latest F-Types. It's my first time replacing it, I went for one that came from the same model/engine size, so I'm unsure if they need programming etc...
8uo6Uxel.jpg


Installation is the reverse, good luck getting all that trim back in xD I took extra care to not trap any wires as a lot coalece around this area. You might want to order some interior push clips :D You can make life easier by removing the seats, I didn't and it was awkward as I'm a larger guy, but it wasn't too difficult.

After all that, did it work?
Hmmm unsure. I reset the codes, let it run for 10 mins and took it out for a blast. It was great, pulled ok, no dips in revs, started fine and idle was good, it was hot and a very spirited drive, I couldn't replicate the issues I was having. Live readouts from my scanner showed strong pressure that didn't fluctuate too much. I come back from that drive feeling positive.
I left it running for a bit longer whilst I did work on my S2000, once done I got back in the F-Type to shut her down and then it decided to sputter/die... It started fine after, ran for a bit, then died again. Suffice to say I was frustrated...

I had another look today, started her up, was all good. comparing the pressures to the desired readings, everything seems to match/look good. I did notice a little chatter from the rear of the car, possibly the Fuel Sender, but it did go away. It idled for over 40 mins with no issues and repeat starts were fine.
I took it on a drive to and from the shops this evening and again, everything went according to plan...

So I'm still confused xD I'm starting to think maybe it was some debris in the fuel line thats slowly being pushed through/breaking up over time with the recent additives. I'll run it again tomorrow and have a drive on Friday before it's MOT and see how it goes.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
First thought is, appreciate the write up and photos - interesting read and could be very useful to someone else.
Second thought is, can you imaging how much this would have cost you at a dealer with their £200 p.h. labour rates - and no doubt more clips broken than with your care.
Third thought is, well done on not letting this beat you - I’m sure your methodical approach will win out in the end - hopefully soon now, fingers crossed!
Then you can enjoy the drives without that nagging worry at the back of your mind.
 
Interesting write-up of the issue and your efforts. Though, that’ll be cold comfort to you right now.

I think your first post comment regarding one bank and fuel starvation/flow issues is where this is headed?

Good luck for a straightforward outcome.
 
Quick update.

Ever since that small shut off, during the first drive after the FDPM swap, the car has been solid. I've had it on several chunky journeys in both traffic and on motorway, it's been spot on.
I have a feeling that the shut off after the FDPM swap might have been the main PCM catching up, now it's cycled, it seems to be working just fine... fingers crossed :D
 
Hopefully your problem is solved.

Thank you for your comprehensive write-up and follow ups. It made for interesting & informative reading.
 
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