New tyres and brake pads - Done.

[Tel]

So, finally got round to a few outstanding jobs.
I have the last of my 5 pre-paid services coming up at some stage this year once the situation eases, so though I'd best crack on.

I have blatantly copied the JLR format to keep my cars' records looking the same.

Also inserted necessary sizes and part numbers for those of you that will be venturing down this route in the future:



P.S How surprised was I to find a split in the brake piston dust cover once the dust and crud was removed (only 5 years old!). This will allow water to ingress and corrosion start to occur on the hard chrome surface of the piston, which in turn would sieze:



Here's the long awaited repair kit that came form Germany (This took a lot of effort to source from the TRW drawings). Used on many other marques such as Audi and BMW also:



And a shot of the new Mich 305's that are 10mm wider, plus Motor Sport Tech Hub centric 17mm spacers:



Feedback on how the car feels, as well as the brake dust issue will be reported on this thread in due course....

 

[Anonymous]

Great work! I especially like the last item!

Interested to find out how the new pads are - both performance and dust wise.

Was there a reason you’ve gone for 5.1 brake fluid? Were you having issues?

 

[Tel]

Great work! I especially like the last item!

Interested to find out how the new pads are - both performance and dust wise.

Was there a reason you’ve gone for 5.1 brake fluid? Were you having issues?

It's the most important item of the lot ;-)

I expect to put around 500 miles or so for the pads to conform to the existing disk profile.

5.1 was used because I saw no reason not to 'upgrade' to a higher boiling point fluid, that ultimately was compatible with the existing brake fluid, and of course, was as cheap as chips.

I also had a litre of it on my shelf for my mountain bike and motor bikes!

 

[Timbo]

where did you get the pads from Tel.

 

[Tel]

Hi Tim,

I used these guys as they import Porterfield for their high powered ricers - Very good service indeed. Paul is the main man.

I remember they offered fitting for something like just under 85 inc VAT...wish I'd taken them up on the offer, but not sure if they would have done it with as much attention to not scratching and scraping the parts. I was also tempted by a 72 quid dyno run, but alas, that will wait.

Japanese car tuning & parts specialist since 2000.
Europes largest Toyota Supra tuning and parts specialists.
We offer a fitting service for any parts here too so please ask!
!!!NEW 2000BHP Dynojet rolling road here at Garage Whifbitz!!!
dynojet

Tel: 01291 420500
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk
Clutches: www.specclutch.co.uk
Brake pads: www.porterfieldbrakes.co.uk
Titanium Exhausts: www.tiexhausts.co.uk

 

[Timbo]

Cheers for that Tel, if you dont mind me asking but what did you pay for them.

 

[RPSN]

So that you've got something to compare with, David Appleby Engineering also sell the Porterfield R4-S brake pads for the F-Type.

Here’s the links (including prices) for the Porterfield part numbers that Tel provided in his Jaguar ‘Record of Service’ list.

N.B. These pads are not for use with ceramic rotors.

Fronts:

http://www.davidapplebyengineering.com/shop/productdetails/Jaguar_F_Type_R_V8S_V6S_Porterfield_R4_S_Brake_Pads_Front_AP_1750/629

Rears:

http://www.davidapplebyengineering.com/Shop/ProductDetails/Jaguar_F_Type_Porterfield_R4_S_Brake_Pads_Rear_AP_1753/630

 

[RPSN]

I remember they offered fitting for something like just under 85 inc VAT...wish I'd taken them up on the offer, but not sure if they would have done it with as much attention to not scratching and scraping the parts.

Sounds like it was quite a job to fit the pads.

How did you get on with those front anti-rattle springs/clips.........heard they're awkward to remove/refit unless you've mastered the technique?

 

[Tel]

UPDATE:

Unfortunately haven't had enough time to fully bed them in yet...they are 80% there.
Lost the initial 'grab' that the OEMS have with a light touch of the pedal.
They are certainly more progressive and you a have to haul up on them a little heavier with your foot. I think that's because they rely on heat to be more effective.
Once I have full pad to disc contact, I will update the original thread...the saving grace is, there is noticeably less dust, (this may change as the contact area increases to 100%) and it's light grey instead of black, which is much easier to live with when you have gun metal grey wheels.

 

[RPSN]

@Tel

As you’ve lost the initial grab and you have to exert more pressure on the brake pedal, perhaps this is because the friction material on the Porterfield pads is harder than the OEM quality which is also one of the reasons they produce less dust?

Interesting to hear the colour of the dust is lighter although it would still probably show up on my silver wheels but not as bad as normal!

I contacted Paul Whiffin (GARAGE WHIFBITZ) last year and he gave me a price of £325 inc delivery (not fitted) for the Porterfield R4-S front & rear pads for my car. The price may have increased since then but I would think it’s considerably cheaper than the David Appleby Engineering price of £468!

These APEC pads also seem pretty good for producing less dust etc and they’re in the lower to normal price range..... https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4527

Will be good to see your update on the Porterfields when they are fully bedded in and also whether or not you think they’re worth the extra money compared with some cheaper high quality brands?

 

[Philskill]

Nice Job Tel, and a good find on the gaiter split, looks like tool damage, maybe from a previous job?,

Yes don't go judging the pads till they are well bedded in. I've tackled those front caliper springs once already, they are by far the worst I've ever done!

 

[Tel]

@Tel

As you’ve lost the initial grab and you have to exert more pressure on the brake pedal, perhaps this is because the friction material on the Porterfield pads is harder than the OEM quality which is also one of the reasons they produce less dust?

Interesting to hear the colour of the dust is lighter although it would still probably show up on my silver wheels but not as bad as normal!

I contacted Paul Whiffin (GARAGE WHIFBITZ) last year and he gave me a price of £325 inc delivery (not fitted) for the Porterfield R4-S front & rear pads for my car. The price may have increased since then but I would think it’s considerably cheaper than the David Appleby Engineering price of £468!

These APEC pads also seem pretty good for producing less dust etc and they’re in the lower to normal price range..... https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4527

Will be good to see your update on the Porterfields when they are fully bedded in and also whether or not you think they’re worth the extra money compared with some cheaper high quality brands?

I think you are right, the compound is likely to be harder. The dust is definitely grey, albeit the pads are as black as the Ace of Spades.

Paul was indeed cheaper...Most of DAE's kit can be bought for a lesser price if you do your digging.

I went with the majority of users on the US forums, as they are much more akin to modifying cars than us Brits. The consensus was that PF's seem to be the biz.

Indeed, I would like to get them up to 'operating temp' on a track to fully evaluate their claims, but for now, I can't complain.

 

[RPSN]

@Tel

Strange how the brake dust is grey when the pads are black......better though!

Hadn’t heard of GARAGE WHIFBITZ until you included the link.......saved for future ref

Yes I’ve seen some reports about the Porterfield R4-S’s on the US forums and they seem very pleased with them......especially the reduction in dust!

If or when you get the pads up to operating temp on a track, I would think they’ll come into play and you’ll feel the difference in braking performance etc.

Although they’re not quite fully bedded in yet, have you noticed any brake squeal with them when doing very slow manoeuvres e.g. when parking or inching forward/reversing then applying the brakes?

Going back to your original post where you found a split in the brake piston dust cover, it doesn’t say much for the quality of rubber that Jag have used on those seals as it should have lasted more than 5 years! Hopefully the new kit you’ve fitted (which is also used on Audi/BMW etc) is superior quality?

I’ll be cleaning and checking mine periodically.

 

[Timbo]

So i had the porterfield pads fitted by dae back in may £295 and £156 to fit, which i didnt think was to bad.
Like Tel said you do lose the initial bite of the oem pads but the gains are better, they're very progressive, very little dust.
I'm also running drilled and grooved disks but like Tel i haven't put many miles on them.

 

[RPSN]

@Timbo

Was that price for the fronts only?

Good to hear the gains with the Porterfields are better and there's very little brake dust with them.

 

[Tel]

I think the price form DAE from what Timbo is saying is not bad at all and certainly worth considering.

I'm a DIY'er through and through and other than services with a trusted R trained tech, only myself works on the car. I found the split in the rubber seal because I was scrupulously cleaning the callipers with a toothbrush and Isoprop Alcohol ready for an application of Gtecniq C5 wheel armour in the nooks and crannies you can only get into with the calliper is removed.

I wanted to flush and replace the brake fluid as well as it had been in there for 5 years.

Never since I have had F's (2014) have I had an issue with brake squeal even when pushing the steels to boiling point at Millbrook!

I'm deliberately nor mentioning the anti-squeal shim/plates on the front callipers...they caused me physical and mental anguish.
There are NO meaningful tips/instructions either in Topix, the UK/US forums, or from TRW that make the job any easier or explain exactly how.
Some people say they fly on, no worries. I would like to see that on a Youtoob video please. I'm sure in China there is a cute little old lady in her 90's throwing these on with ease ;-)
If they come off again, I will attempt to leave them in position, because I think I could remove pads and inspect the assy's without removing the shim plates.

 

[RPSN]

Did a quick check on the DAE website and the front pads for the Jaguar F-Type R, V8S, V6S are £234. The rears are also £234 and include the F-Type R, V8S, V6S equipped with 376mm rear rotors.

The rear pads for the F-TYPE V6 Base & V6S equipped with 325mm rear rotors are priced at £252. All these prices are without fitting.

On this basis, if I was to buy the front & rear pads it would cost me £486 without fitting. The TRW’s or APEC’s are approx a third of this price so for me I don’t really think it’s worth it. Even though I currently get a lot of brake dust on the fronts, the Propeller wheels are very easy to clean.

I’m also a DIY’er but there are some jobs that I prefer my local independent garage to do as well as servicing on the F-Type. This is partly because I work on my cars on the driveway and I’ve been caught in bad weather many times over the years (can't beat water running down your face/neck/arms when your under the car doing an oil change etc!). As I’m getting older this isn’t so appealing unless there's a good spell of weather. On the other hand, if I had a nice garage my missus probably wouldn’t see me much!

Lucky that you gave the calipers a good cleaning otherwise, as you’ve said, that worn seal would have eventually led to a seized piston etc.

The brakes ‘squeal’ or should I say ‘creak’ sometimes happens when I start my car and engage drive or reverse whilst my foot is on the brake pedal (I always wait for the revs to drop before engaging). There is no noise whatsoever when I’m out on the roads driving the car and braking etc but I'm curious to see if others have experienced the same sort of thing?

I’m not sure whether you’ve already seen this but with regards to doing the job (brake pads renewal) with and without removing/replacing the anti-rattle clips/springs, the following info, which applies to the front brakes, was written by member OzXFR:

“Last but not least the hardest part of the whole job is getting the front brake anti-rattle clips back on, they are a real bear and it took me many many tries across four different pad changes (XFR & F-Type twice each) to get ‘the knack’.
Put simply, place the clip loosely in place, push the two feet/ends into place (takes a bit of force), then while holding the two ends in place use a large flat-blade screwdriver right in the middle of the inner edge of the clip (i.e. the spring itself) to lever the clip ‘up and in’. You may find that you don't have enough hands and you need a helper with strong holds to hold the ends/feet in place while you lever the middle.”

And.....

“I have found (twice now, once each on the XFR and F-Type) that with the front brakes you can easily enough remove the entire caliper and bracket intact by removing the 15 mm caliper bolts, BUT with the bracket still attached to the caliper via the slide pins it is very difficult to get the old pads out and put the new pads in, as both inner and outer pads have long 90 degree locating/retaining springs on them and the bracket gets in the way.
Both times I gave up, put the calipers back on and removed the caliper slide pins instead, 1000% easier that way!”

“The only downside to this method is the need to remove and replace the anti-rattle clips, but once you get ‘the knack’ of doing this you will wonder what all the fuss is about.”

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f-type-x152-72/brake-pads-replacement-rear-f-type-r-2016-how-188946/

There again Tel, I’ve also read what you said here.......” They are, without the shadow of a doubt, one of the most difficult jobs I have ever come across, apart from putting a new windscreen into a classic car using a 'spanish-windlass' to bend it into shape!”

“There is plenty of info on the US forums, and some claim it is an easy job - try their method...it is not.”

“What nobody seems to tell you (Forums, Youtube, TopIx) is that on both of the arms that have to be 'pinged' back into place and two small tongues that locate into recesses in the cast caliper, are small shims formed loosely over the ends and these must stay in place as well as getting the assembly pre-loaded and re-located.”

https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4714

I think we need to find that little old Chinese lady in her 90’s that’s doing the job blind folded! :lol:

P,S. The attached document also seems very informative with clear instructions.

 

[Timbo]

Just looked at my invoice and it was definately 295 inclusive for the pads, RSPN i think you need to speak to them to get a qoute because those prices are wrong.
The rear pads are definately cheaper than the fronts so dont know why they're listed as the same price.
I also like to get my hands dirty, i changed the disks myself and didnt really have a problem getting the anti rattle springs back on
I would have done the pads at the same time but they didnt turn up in time, and as dae were doing my lower pulley and map i thought they may
as well do the pads at the same time.

 

[RPSN]

@Timbo

I did find it unusual that both the front and rear Porterfield R4-S pads are the same price on the DAE website? I’ll contact them for a quote.

When you changed the discs, could this have been done without removing the anti-rattle springs and instead removing the whole caliper? (15mm caliper bolts).

As well as the info I posted about refitting the anti-rattle springs, do you have any further tips to add to this? I ask because you didn’t have much of a problem with them? Also, did you manage to refit them without marking/scratching the calipers?

Cheers

 

[Timbo]

@RPSN

Yea im pretty sure i just removed the whole caliper when i changed the disks.
As for any tips not really im afraid apart from i didnt worry to much about scratching the anti rattle springs and i didnt thankfully.