Injector headache

[Banner77]

Hi guys

So bear with me while I fill you in and hopefully I can get some much needed answers and knowledge from you wise jag owners.

3 weeks ago when pulling away white smoke came out the exhaust and instant coolant loss and high temp warning I was 1 mile from home and pulled in a garage so I tipped up the coolant and limped home, once home after it had run back it started running lumpy and tapping.
The following day it got recovered to Jaguar Nelson both times it started fine and drove on and off the recovery truck fine but lumpy.

Jaguar diagnosed that a coolant pipe had come loose completely and that was easily repaired and injector 4 was faulty but seized, they said they would need a specialist to be called in and left that with them. An hour later they called me back and said they will pull the injector but it may require more labour I told them I had a place in Catterick that would pull it for £600 but would need transporting there for £400 so £1000 but Jaguar said they will do it Monday.

Now the woman on the phone said if it snaps it could be a new engine but having already researched myself worst case seems to be a new cylinder head. Secondly she said once it’s been pulled and replaced then they will have to see what else is wrong with it once it’s running, so would the diagnostic not show all the faults and as it’s running and just missing on the faulty injector what other things can be next? Head gasket, supercharger I’m no good with this stuff so please help me put my mind at ease or brace for worst case.

Cheers guys

2014 V6 3.0

 

[Anonymous]

In a previous post you mentioned a good relationship with a service manager. I’d go in & have a chat. You need some honest advice & agree a plan of action, including ball-park costs.

AP are well known but there’s also a specialist mobile injector removal company. They have attended JLR premises.

 

[scm]

Now the woman on the phone said if it snaps it could be a new engine but having already researched myself worst case seems to be a new cylinder head.

Dealers will tend to replace whole modules rather than diagnose and fix faults within modules. In this case I suspect they're considering the engine a module, rather than tearing down parts of it. And it's in their interest if they're not bearing the cost - easier job and someone else paying, what's not to like?

Hope you can get it sorted out satisfactorily.

 

[Banner77]

Yeah I’m going to go over at weekend and have a chat, there reluctance to use a specialist and do it themselves has me wondering and also does that then mean if they snap the injector it’s on them as they have refused a specialist and not turned around and said they cannot do the job by taking the job on knowing there is risk then is that their risk.

 

[Banner77]

I was going to go to AP but now the dealership woman is saying when they replace the injector they will see if there is anything else gone, we’ll that put me off towing it to AP for £400 for the injector for it to then go back to Jaguar for other stuff it’s just a headache

 

[Kev]

You’ve posted three or four topucs about the same issue; can you edit everything so it’s all in one post as it’s tidier and in one place, plus makes it easier for people to help and keep track of things?

Coolant pipe fails and deposits contents of cooling system - was the steam you saw the coolant hitting the exhaust or was the steam coming out of the exhausts? If it was the latter then coolant has entered the combustion area indicating head gasket(s) failure

Rough running could also be caused by water in the combustion cylinder

How far was the car actually driven without coolant (one of your posts says one mile), and how high did the temperature gauge go?

Why was the car driven onto the trailer despite no coolant being in the engine? It should’ve been winched on as it was a non-runner

Injector no.4 - has this been diagnosed as having failed via electronic diagnostics? Was this a coincidental failure or pre-existing ie. any signs of misfiring or rough running prior to the coolant issue?

How many miles has the car done?

 

[Anonymous]

Phil (admin) has removed the duplicate topics and posts so this is the topic to post and help the OP with.

As per above post by Kev, I don't understand how a sudden loss of coolant and blown coolant pipe has resulted in Jaguar dismantling the engine when it was stated on a previous and now deleted topic that the car was refilled with coolant and drove ok.

I would suggest a face to face meeting with the Jaguar garage to discuss the events and decide on a course of action.

 

[cj10jeeper]

This is becoming a bit disjointed and with missing info from previous posts,

Couple of extra comments:

You keep trying to associate risks of things going wrong such as snapping the injector on the dealer. It’s 100% on you unless you tell them not to attempt to remove it. My V6S had its service this week and the plastic gearbox plug rounded so I had to have a new pan fitted. They called advised and I had a choice of no oil change or a new pan, filter and kit.

Diagnostics can’t be completed until the engine is running and as the dealer advised it may show up more faults and need to reset or more work. For example if the head gasket had gone the diagnostics without the engine running could not detect leaks, poor running, unusual emissions, etc.

As posted and planned I’d sit down with the dealer and discuss options, costs and create an agreed plan.

 

[Banner77]

Hi

Sorry guys new to the forum game, my head is scrambled from it all

Yeah smoke came from the exhaust rear I think white but it was dark.

The engine temp light went out and I topped up the coolant and it held the level overnight when I checked in the morning.

The car was running fine before this and no tapping but when the car was idiling after the incident it started running lumpy and tapping.

It’s a 2014 3.0ltr 52,000

Many thanks guys sorry about the posts just trying to get answers I’m going to go over Monday and see what the dealers are saying

 

[Banner77]

Daft question but I’m no hood with this, if they have to remove the cylinder head can they do the head gasket at the same time or are they different components

 

[Kev]

The head gasket sits between the engine block and cylinder head, and if the head is taken off then a new gasket is installed as a matter of course. Heads can warp if they overheat but this can be machined back to true, although Stealers tend not to do this but an independent will

When you visit the Stealer, write everything down they tell you at the time, and reaffirm with them so that you can then relay everything here! If you don’t understand what they’re telling you then ask to have it explained in English rather than technical speak

 

[gasgas]

Banner, sound to me that you just need to find somebody you trust to give you advice, not a dealer

 

[Kev]

Well, do we have any updates as I haven’t slept all week thinking about this?

 

[Banner77]

Well, do we have any updates as I haven’t slept all week thinking about this?

Email from JLR

Yes you are correct, Frank has been trying to get the injector out of the head, so far we have been unsuccessful but we ordered a new special tool.

As Frank is getting further and further into it we are now suspecting the new cylinder head is going to be required but we cannot 100% confirm that at this point. I am going tog get this all priced up and come back to you.

Any work at the moment carried out is in and amongst the work we have booked in. If I was to actually allocate time out of the diary for your vehicle we are currently booking 1st week in November – obviously this is far from ideal so we are doing what we can in and amongst and trying to get as much done.

Our staffing levels are picking back up again now for the better so im sure Frank will be able to spend a lot more time on your vehicle over the next couple of weeks.

Obviously we had the conversation at the very start about the potential of the vehicle ending up requiring a new engine, we want to avoid this at all costs but at this stage we still cannot rule this out.

I will be intouch with as much more information as I can once I have it and will price the cylinder head up as soon as I can.

**********************************************

This is the email I received today, basically I ring them every other day and they tell me of staffing issues and the head technician Frank has to order a slide hammer as they don’t have one. I don’t know what to do as I’m no good with mechanics, from what you guys have told me is…

Remove and replace injector and test engine, most probably head gasket as white smoke and coolant loss when the car went down originally.

No need for new engine unless block is cracked but no sign of oil leaking and was running on idle but lumpy due to injector.

Cylinder head may be warped and need replacing.

I’m going to ring Jaguar customer care tomorrow and see if they offer any information or financial contributions trying the bonnet vent water ingress as a possible avenue as it’s not under warranty.

Had the car 7 months and now it’s been in JLR 4 weeks yesterday

 

[Banner77]

Still no joy in pulling the injector and now it may need a cylinder head replacement.

 

[scm]

You might want to obscure your address.

 

[Cluck]

You might want to obscure it a bit better in the first image, or at least just crop that part of the image out and re-upload it

(If I can read your address from it then you can be damn sure others can too)

 

[Anonymous]

Quite frankly ridiculous, from the turbo charger comment to £50 for telling you have a warning light on, £769 to tell you an injector needs changing. And 5 or 6 weeks in now and still not close to removing an injector.

My advise is to contact someone who knows what they are doing when removing a seized injector.
For example - http://www.apautodiagnostics.com/petrol-injector-removal-seized

 

[gasgas]

+1

 

[Anonymous]

A warning to us all to not use main dealers for repair work.
They just blindly follow processes laid out in the workshop manual. A real machanic will use skill and experience to find a solution.

I suspect a new head is not required as when old head is taken off they can punch out the old injector assuming they've not damaged the head.

Also what happened to this car? Injector failures plague all DI engines so this is not unheard of, But coolant hoses don't just fall off! And what is the connection between these 2 issues I wonder.