From a 981 Cayman S to a P450

[worton]

Hello! As the title says, I've just made the move from a 2013 Porsche Cayman S 981 to a 2020 P450 RWD Coupe and I wanted to share my experience as I've seen a few people looking to make a similar move. TLR at the bottom along with a few pics. This is a bit of a ramble so I'm just putting things down as they come to my head.

I'm obviously going to be biased in my opinion but I'll try and keep it as neutral as possible.

Cayman S
I've owned the Cayman for around 1 year, during this time I've covered about 5000 miles both short and long journeys. In my opinion I think the Cayman is overhyped. When I was looking I browsed a lot of forums and read a lot of comments about the Cayman and comparable cars and the consensus was that the Cayman was the superior car, it had A LOT of praise. I found that it was a great car when you really pushed it, but for the rest of the time it was just ok. It didn't really feel very special when just driving normally.

For example the engine sound didn't really come alive until after 5000 rpm which unless you're revving it out all the time you don't get to hear that frequently. Off the back of that the gearing of the PDK meant that you could only rev it out in first and just about second gear before you're up to the speed limit, then you spend the rest of the time in the "boring" part of the rev range.

Saying that though, the PDK was a fantastic gearbox. Very quick to change gears and the feel of the paddles when changing gears was much better than the F-Type. Even by swapping my plastic paddles for aluminium on the F it wouldn't feel anywhere near as nice to change than the PDK.

I think as a sports car or track car it is really good, the cornering ability was impressive and it felt like you pivoted around corners from the middle of the car rather than getting pulled/pushed round like typical engine layout cars, but driving around roads normally it just wasn't great.

It definitely felt like a more raw car, lots of mechanical noises in the cabin and a firm ride meant that it felt like a throw back to the older style cars of less technology, even the electric steering felt like it did a good job of giving feedback. It felt like it was on the right side of old, still very modern enough to use daily and the interior has aged really well, but with the feel of an older more analogue driving experience.

My main dislikes and why I ended up moving on:
- Not that special when driving normally
- Noise from the engine wasn't that great unless redlining it
- The raw feeling inside was fun for a while but ended up getting a bit tedious
- Started to get concerned with reliability as it was a 2013 car with 59,000 miles

F-Type
This brings me on to the P450. It's heavier and doesn't feel nearly as agile as the Porsche, but that was expected. What I didn't expect was that the F is dramatic everywhere! Driving slowly around corners I can kick the back out a bit and it feels really playful, something I couldn't really do with the 981 as well due to its engine layout. The Porsche was serious where as the F isn't. However if you need to go fast and accurate around a bend then the Porsche has you covered.

And then there's the sound. My F has a GPF which I was worried about but wanted the facelift as I prefer the looks of exterior and like the new technology inside. On the drive home from the dealer I was a bit gutted that below 3,500 rpm it was really disappointing. So the second I got the car home I removed fuse 15 for the exhaust flaps and bugger me its a different car. The pops and crackles coming out of the exhaust even creeping along at 1500 rpm in first gear is fantastic! Genuinely must be the best sounding GPF car in existence.

The looks, sound and playfulness of the F when driving at slow speeds is so much more fun than driving the Porsche at the same speeds that I'm so glad I made the move. That was the one thing I wanted in a car, to be able to have fun all the time not just when on the limit.

The interior in the F-Type feels nicer too. Maybe down to age but the Porsche feels functional and that's about it.

Things I don't like about the F:
- Steering feel isn't as nice as the Porsche. The Porsche felt heavier but in a substantial way compared to the F that feels too artificial
- The paddle changes do let the experience down a bit. They're fine but like clicky switches compared to the clunk of the Porsche changes.


TLR
Porsche:
- Great performance car when you're pushing on but a bit boring when driving normally.
- Engine noise not particularly great except when revving out
- Revving out was a bit difficult due to the gear ratios meaning you could barely get to the top of second before hitting the speed limit
- Felt raw like an old school car but still new enough to feel like a nice place to be
- The badge, it was nice to own a Porsche but I'm not really a badge snob so moving wasn't an issue. And its not like a Jaguar is a rubbish brand!
- Started to feel old

F-Type:
- Way more fun at normal speeds
- Sound is fantastic even through a GPF once fuse 15 is removed
- Steering is fine, not as good as the Porsche though even though it has electric steering
- Paddle gear changes are a bit weak compared to the Porsche, PDK is better although the ZF is still a great box
- Not as surgical as the Porsche but that's not necessarily a bad thing, depends what you're after
- More GT like than the Porsche which is what I'm after
- Nicer interior

And then some pics:
Before


After

 

[Andrew24]

great review on both F-type and Cayman. I was looking at both an ended choosing the F-Type. My wife love the Jag too so this was a win-win.

 

[munchie]

The only thing that I don't like about my Ftype P450 AWD is the artificial steering - i still have an M3 V8 with hydraulic steering and whilst the steering feel is heavier in the M3 it feels more confidence inspiring - i suspect the P450 is electric steering but not sure.. That's my only gripe . I took mine to Viezu for a Stage 1 tune to give it close to 600hp and around 800 nm of torque - the car is manic quick when needed and a doddle to drive when you don't.

 

[worton]

I agree, the steering does feel too artificial. I can live with it but the Porsche was electric also but a much better feel so it's a shame Jaguar couldn't make it work. I was thinking of mapping mine but I can barely get the power down as it is! Maybe when I move to some better tyres...

 

[Lunar]

What a great write up - seems absolutely spot on in every comment.

For me the main “needs” for a nice car is that it looks good (not just angry!) and gets admiring glances from all ages; that every drive is an occasion (this includes sound and how you feel behind the wheel); and that this is the case trundling through town and not just coming alive at high speed.

Whilst not claiming it’s the best I do believe that the hydraulic steering on the early cars is lovely, in terms of feel and feedback.

I just have to disagree with you regarding the looks - for me the original Ian Callum penned sharks gill design running from the front side air intake along the bonnet and door, before blending in to the rear wing (and the semi-circular rear lights) can’t be bettered.

 

[Lunar]

…and welcome!

 

[MikeM]

Good write up, I’ve had both ( well a Boxster and a 991s) and would agree with your comments. Personally never liked the Cayman rear end and have been loaned a few (as a service courtesy) on many occasions. Usually just drove it home and returned it at the end of the day, as you said, at normal speeds it’s just not appealing. Now your Jag.. plus that colour welcome and enjoy.

 

[scm]

Welcome to the club! Your list didn't mention "being let into traffic" as a pro for the Jaaaag. :lol:

 

[stefan9107]

Welcome, and good choice of colour.

I suspect many on here, myself included, looked at both F-Type and Cayman/Boxster/911 before coming to a decision.

Your post definitely justifies why I made the choice though. First and foremost I've been in love with the F-Type since it first debuted, but I also wanted a V8 before it was too late to experience one - to feel the drama all the time.
Like the Cayman (although a very different experience), it was what disappointed me the most about my 2017 Golf R. Unless you were "on it", it might as well of just been any old Golf on the road. The key difference though is that's kind of the point with a Golf R/GTI. They are meant to be everyday cars that can be transformed on a back road. Not so much for a Cayman so I'm both surprised and then again not by your comments on it.

On reflection though, it definitely makes sense that a car that is meant to be the pinnacle of the driving experience would need to be pushed towards the limits to be enjoyed more. I'd also read a few issues about the gearing and how you don't get to enjoy the engine on normal roads. Apparently it's even worse for the manual. Sadly, the chase for better numbers, faster speeds, faster acceleration, lap times etc has all come at the cost of real world driving. I'd much rather have a car that does 0-60 two seconds slower and needs 4 gear changes before hitting 70, than one that hits 60 in 4 seconds but you only change once.

 

[worton]

100% agree that numbers aren't everything and in some cases they take away some of the fun. I've had a fair few JCW MINIs and fast they were not but they were plenty of fun. After the Porsche I was considering going for something slow but fun such as an MX5 or GR86, but they didn't have the "something special" appeal of the F or the Supra that I was also considering. Then after discovering how fun and dramatic the F is even while driving slow, I'm very happy with the decision I have made. Also I'm so glad I didn't go for the Supra, getting one nearly new and having the warranty was appealing for the same price as my p450 but I think it wouldn't have nearly as much character

 

[MajorTom]

Welcome! Very interesting writeup there which confirms my views or shall we say prejudices about Porsches.

Although I'm an utter petrol head I strangely enough always found Porsches completely uninteresting and never even entertained the thought of trying one. I expect them to be brilliantly engineered and excellent for hard driving, I know people who love them, but I struggle to see anything exciting about the brand or the cars no matter if it's a base Boxter or some top of the range 911 GT3 blabla. I guess it doesn't help that I see loads of them every day, can't bring myself to seeing anything pretty about that evolved beetle design and that they're considered as the Golf for the higher earners in this part of the world. Plus that the company feels way too fat and happy and the cars so overpriced.

I suppose they're exciting for those who care about numbers, panel gaps and ring lap times. Character and to a certain extent exclusivity is what makes the difference and that's where no Porsche cuts the mustard like a Jag.

That old blue Boxter from that angle, in that light, with those wheels actually looks good though!

 

[Lady Eleanore]

Great comparison. The Cayman has been on my wish list for years, just never seemed to have the money when I could actually get a hold of one.

I should write up how my F type differs from my previous M3 and in many ways it mirrors your comparison. I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about fuse 15. It's an amazing sound for a car with all those filters in the way, I guess not having a turbo to further dull the sound helps I'm waiting for a week when I have less work on and better weather to really get to grips with my new car.

 

[ianp]

Blue seems to be a bit of a theme.

 

[Spro69]

I have been looking for an honest post comparing the Cayman/Boxter and F Type P450 Coupe/Convertible and your post was very interesting for me.Thank you so much.

I was very tempted by the Boxter (a sports car for me needs roof down capability) but every time I found one in my price range it was a 2.0 L and basic with higher mileage and 3-4 years older than the same price of Jaguar ( my wife not happy with that).On the plus side a Porsche from a main dealer comes with 2 year warranty and they check the cars for over revving data and wheel alignment which gives a bit of confidence.My friend has one in Guards Red on silver 18” wheels and it looks new (it’s about 4 years old).It’s a sporty drive , fruity exhaust when you push it, has lots of boot space and it’s very light and nimble and quite narrow.The Porsche network were very good to deal with too.

After following an advert with no photos for a couple of weeks and dealing with a disorganised sales person I foolishly travelled 100 miles to a Jaguar dealer in Hatfield to buy a 2022 P450 in Firenza red.They failed to send me photos when the car came in, failed to meet me at the station as arranged and when I asked to see the car they didn't know where it was.They would not let me see the underside of the car as arranged, on the hoist due to health and safety (they did do a quick video) and after a two hour wait I got to see the car and take it for a test drive.I noticed the odometer was at 19,720 but the advert reading was 19,000.They shrugged their shoulders and said they would sell to some one else if I didn’t want it.(second time they said that).They wouldn’t adjust the price or even include a free litre of oil so I decided I didn’t want to deal with them.

A week later I saw various pre registered P450’s advertised at Sytner, Bristol benefitting from a three year warranty.I spoke to Lydia in sales and she was fantastic.She returned calls, answered all my questions, was prompt in replying to emails and we agreed on price and for the car to be delivered from another Sytner location.When I arrived in Bristol the car was gleaming in the handover bay and my wife and I were delighted to buy it and drive it home.

It lived up to expectations, looks and sounds amazing (Look up fuse 15) and there is a great sense of occasion when getting the car out of the garage and going for a drive.I was in Halfords and the gentleman that served me looking up correct oil wanted to come and see the car.Joining heavy traffic a lorry driver let me out, kids have taken videos and yesterday I called in at another dealer and when parked outside a couple apologised for looking my car over and admiring it.I said no need to apologise it is nice that they want to look.All this comes about thanks to Ian Callum and his beautiful design.It might be heavy , the boot might be compromised (although I did squeeze in a full weeks groceries) it might be uncomfortably wide on narrow roads but the overall driving experience is a joy.All wheel drive pulls you out of corners and is very sure footed, V8 sound is rewarding in all modes, and the dynamics can be configured to suit the driver.Heated and cooled seats are a luxury option and the cabin is very high quality.Acceleration isn’t bad too with power delivery being linear thanks to the supercharger. I’m looking forward to a French tour soon , getting out on quiet country roads.I expect 35 mpg from current experience versus 30 in an AMG C63 or 22 in an Aston.

I do look at Boxters now and think buying one would have been the sensible option , possibly better made , galvanised chassis , lighter nimble handling but then if I did own one I would probably look at F Types and wonder why I didn’t buy one.Its all about the emotion not the BHP, and 0-60 times and depreciation charts, although I do believe there will be a good following for the last of the V8 Jaguar sports cars.Whether you get a P300 or an SVR when all parked up at a car event they all look stunning and the owners all have a smile.
[attachment=0]IMG_9265[attachment=0]IMG_9265.jpeg

 

[TH51]

I'm pleased this thread was bumped up earlier today as I'd never have seen it otherwise and found it a very interesting read. Nice one worton.

As someone who's become heavily invested in 'Porsche world' over the last 15 years I've had the chance to drive various Caymans and the 981S is my favourite. I came quite close to buying one in 2018 but chose to keep my aging 911 (997 turbo) instead. Since then I'd only ever thought of having a Cayman as a second car but my budget would never have stretched to anything more than a base (non-S) 981. On looks alone I'd never entertain the idea of an earlier version.

Earlier this year I had a choice to make. I'd either be trading my 17 year old 911 for a newer model - probably a 2014 Carrera - or buying a second car to take over 'weekend fun' duties. The short list for such a vehicle was actually very short, a Cayman or an F-type. Before even seeing what was available on the market Cayman-wise I decided to look at an F-type with a potential buyers hat on. It took precisely one-nanosecond to discount the Cayman from my reckoning and start the search for a suitable F-type.

By decision was based on looks and value-for-money. After buying an F-Type and having now driven it on roads I know well I feel 100% vindicated in my decision as the F-Type is also far better to drive than I'd expected.

I particularly empathise with the comment about the Jaguar being more special to drive at ordinary speeds. I've no doubt that 'me in an F-Type' wouldn't keep up with 'me in a 981S' when driving spiritedly but for many that's not a major consideration when buying a car. I suppose suitability depends a lot upon the age of a buyer. 10 years ago, if it was to be my only sports car, I'd probably have gone for the Cayman. Today it would definitely be the F-Type.

My next decision - when finances require it - will be whether to keep the 911 or the Jaguar. With luck it's not one I'll have to make until I'm too old to get in and out of either.

 

[scm]

With luck it's not one I'll have to make until I'm too old to get in and out of either.

I find it hard to get out of the F-Type. Why would i want to get out of it? :lol:

 

[B8RS4]

The Jag is a good all round car. if i am honest I would say the interior materials are a bit questionable but my P450 at a year old was a good price, it drives really well on our lovely roads and sounds great.
The current Caymans in GTS and GT4 guise are unquestionably better cars both dynamically and quality wise but my choice would be a GT4 which are out of my reach.
Bizarrely I have just been given a P300 as a loaner whilst mines in for the usual rear window trim and early thoughts are, apart from the sound, that its a great car that feels really nimble. Looking forward to he drive home to investigate further.

 

[scm]

Bizarrely I have just been given a P300 as a loaner whilst mines in for the usual rear window trim and early thoughts are, apart from the sound, that its a great car that feels really nimble.

I had a white 4-pot loaner just after I bought mine, and nobody noticed the difference! And it was a soft-top! It wasn't a bad car, apart from the distracting "driver assistant aids" which offered no assistance, but I was glad to get back into my full fat version.