Fogged headlights

[RPSN]

Thank you so much RPSN for your very complete answer.
Last Monday I was in Jaguar reporting the problem, they took the data and told me that if the car had been under warranty they would have replaced headlights without problem. However, as the warranty has expired, the dealer is still trying to report the problem to central italian Jaguar. He told me
that it will take about a week to get an answer from Jag and that they will probably offer me a headlight replacement where I will have to pay a percentage of the cost of the headlights. Which is nonetheless absurd for me considering that it is a manufacturing defect.
In addition, he also told me that a recall campaign was starting a few years ago for this problem and that it was then blocked due to Covid. I tried to search online but i could not find any official campaign for my VIN.
A friend with 3.0L had the same problem and Jaguar replaced them under warranty.
I have read the bulletins and it would seem that there are details for the replacement as the condensation in my case is considerable and does not go away when I turn on the headlights. Indeed, keeping the headlights ON condensation increases because there is a greater difference in temperature compared to the outside. The condensation tends to go away afater about 1/2 day, but some small signs of humidity remains.
I will try to see if there is a vent or plug in the area where you photographed.
All this is absurd, my mother's FIAT PANDA MY 2010 does not have these problems.

With regards to you paying a percentage towards the cost of replacement LED headlights, I had a door window glass and seal replaced by my Jaguar main dealer a while ago due to vertical scratches (which is a common fault). My car was outside the 3 year manufacturer’s warranty and I paid a percentage towards it (think it was around 50%).

If you do have the headlights renewed, I hope it cures the condensation issue? Member simpleR mentioned earlier that he had one of the LED headlights renewed and condensation still appears in it under certain conditions (although it doesn’t run with water and disappears when it’s warmer outside). It could also be worthwhile asking your friend (who’s had them renewed under warranty) whether or not the issue has been resolved?

The F-Type headlamp assemblies are very expensive.....this is a Jaguar UK link for them which includes detailed diagrams with prices https://parts.jaguarlandroverclassic.com/parts/index/hierarchy/id/C72.C7272.C7272339/brand/jaguar/

The only documents I have on the headlamp condensation are the technical bulletins I posted earlier. They most certainly show that 'drip marks or streaks in the condensation' are what Jaguar states as ‘abnormal exterior lamp condensation that may be covered by warranty.’

You mention that the condensation tends to go away after about half a day and some small signs of humidity remain. My car’s Xenon headlamps do something similar but I’ve learnt to live with it after the initial shock!

I do agree that these F-Type headlamp condensation issues are absurd!.....I haven’t noticed anywhere near as much on the other cars in my household. My missus has a Ford with new shape clear headlamp lenses and not once have I ever seen drip marks or streaks in the condensation, I’ve only seen a very slight misting of them.

 

[giusemanuel]

I saw the link you posted and looking through my VIN it would appear that my headlights are the version
T2R29120 costing £ 2280. Even if they offered me a percentage refund, I'm afraid I would still have to pay too much. I await the answer with great anxiety.
However no, my friend still hasn't had the problem again and they changed both headlights.
The warranty of my car has actually expired for 3 months because there was an extension of 3 months due to the covid. It should have expired last June, extended from Jaguar to September. I am reporting the issue in January. I hope that in some way Jag will come to meet me because, as you can see from the bulletins you posted, the problem is clearly of production and it would not be correct in my opinion to refer to the customer.

 

[Jaguandy]

Not sure if I've posted this on here before, but is an idea. Toyota Soarers often had water in headlamp problems. The fix was to run a line of clear glue, UHU for example, along the top joins. I don't know if this would be any use on your lamps.

 

[RPSN]

I saw the link you posted and looking through my VIN it would appear that my headlights are the version
T2R29120 costing £ 2280. Even if they offered me a percentage refund, I'm afraid I would still have to pay too much. I await the answer with great anxiety.
However no, my friend still hasn't had the problem again and they changed both headlights.
The warranty of my car has actually expired for 3 months because there was an extension of 3 months due to the covid. It should have expired last June, extended from Jaguar to September. I am reporting the issue in January. I hope that in some way Jag will come to meet me because, as you can see from the bulletins you posted, the problem is clearly of production and it would not be correct in my opinion to refer to the customer.

If your case with ‘central Italian Jaguar’ is successful, you may find that as your manufacturer’s 3 year warranty only expired 3 months ago (due to Covid) perhaps they’ll contribute more than you think towards the replacement LED headlights?

If your case is not successful or Jaguar aren’t prepared to compromise, you could search for used parts, but they could also start to show signs of condensation and you wouldn’t have the 2 year warranty that Jaguar offers.

Good to hear that your friend’s F-Type hasn’t had any further LED headlight condensation issues since having them replaced under warranty.

Out of curiosity, how long have you owned the car and did you buy it from a Jaguar main dealer?

 

[giusemanuel]

Not sure if I've posted this on here before, but is an idea. Toyota Soarers often had water in headlamp problems. The fix was to run a line of clear glue, UHU for example, along the top joins. I don't know if this would be any use on your lamps.

I will try to carry out any interventions only after Jaguar tells me definitively that they cannot do anything.

I saw the link you posted and looking through my VIN it would appear that my headlights are the version
T2R29120 costing £ 2280. Even if they offered me a percentage refund, I'm afraid I would still have to pay too much. I await the answer with great anxiety.
However no, my friend still hasn't had the problem again and they changed both headlights.
The warranty of my car has actually expired for 3 months because there was an extension of 3 months due to the covid. It should have expired last June, extended from Jaguar to September. I am reporting the issue in January. I hope that in some way Jag will come to meet me because, as you can see from the bulletins you posted, the problem is clearly of production and it would not be correct in my opinion to refer to the customer.

If your case with ‘central Italian Jaguar’ is successful, you may find that as your manufacturer’s 3 year warranty only expired 3 months ago (due to Covid) perhaps they’ll contribute more than you think towards the replacement LED headlights?

If your case is not successful or Jaguar aren’t prepared to compromise, you could search for used parts, but they could also start to show signs of condensation and you wouldn’t have the 2 year warranty that Jaguar offers.

Good to hear that your friend’s F-Type hasn’t had any further LED headlight condensation issues since having them replaced under warranty.

Out of curiosity, how long have you owned the car and did you buy it from a Jaguar main dealer?

I hope Jag offers me a good solution as it is a known problem.


I would like to avoid taking used headlights. I would risk spending some money to get the problem back. In my opinion there is a defective series of these headlights, since my friend has never happened again.

I have had the car since July and bought it from the previous owner.

 

[cj10jeeper]

Hopefully Jaguar will do something to help, although as you've noted even a contribution to replace headlights will leave a significant expense
I don't believe in the idea of a faulty batch, more a generic problem with LED lights given how they generate less heat to dry lights out

This article, albeit as part of a launch of a solution to the automotive industry, gives good insight into the issue across LED headlights, including 3 ways water gets into the light
https://www.gore.com/news-events/news/a-new-level-of-protection-against-headlamp-condensation

Also in a linked article by Gore:
The costs of dealing with condensation can be significant. Headlamp condensation can lead consumers to believe their vehicle has defective lamps and can result in additional cost to the dealer who must address an unhappy customer. In addition to the consumer issues, condensation may accelerate the aging of electronic components.

 

[giusemanuel]

I received the answer from Jaguar, they asked me € 800 for the replacement of both headlights, compared to € 5460 (€ 2730 per headlight). Which in the end is about 15% of the entire cost. Although I believe that it is not correct to charge the customer for this expense because the problem is in my opinion it is factory, I do not think I have other choices than to accept.
I hope I don't have the problem with these.
However, the new headlights will be under warranty for two years.

I also hope that some new solution has been adopted that avoids condensation as posted by cj10jeeper.

 

[RPSN]

€800 (£668) for the replacement of both LED headlights......good result!

As I mentioned earlier, the fact that your car is only 3 months outside the manufacturer's warranty may have helped?

Another choice you have is to learn to live with the condensation issue (which occurs now and again), as many others do, including myself.

If you accept the offer, hopefully the issue won’t reoccur and if it does, not to such an extent. The Jaguar 2 year warranty is reassuring to have on expensive parts such as these. Let us know how they are (any condensation) in the periods with low temperatures or after washing your car etc?

As your friend has also had replacement LED headlights on his F-Type (replaced under Jaguar warranty) and they don’t have the condensation issues, perhaps something like that which is shown in cj10jeeper's post (AML Condensation Management Device (CMD) enabled by GORE Condensation Management Products) has been incorporated into the design? There again, I haven't seen any Jaguar special service messages or technical bulletins saying so.

 

[giusemanuel]

In the end, I accepted the dealership's offer. Probably Jag made me this offer because the car has recently been out of warranty and also because it is a fairly well known defect. I hope that with these new ones I will solve the problem and that it never comes again.
Anyway, I found this photo very interesting, is it possible that the two caps are the black ones I circled?

 

[RPSN]

In the end, I accepted the dealership's offer. Probably Jag made me this offer because the car has recently been out of warranty and also because it is a fairly well known defect. I hope that with these new ones I will solve the problem and that it never comes again.
Anyway, I found this photo very interesting, is it possible that the two caps are the black ones I circled?

AED0EAF4-ADE9-4D1A-8FFF-9F894E5E940A.jpeg

Keep us posted on how the new LED headlights are? I hope the condensation issue doesn't reoccur but if it does, then not as much.....will be interesting to find out?

The two caps in your pic do look similar (although smaller) to the rubber caps (bulb covers) that are shown in the Xenon headlamp diagram I posted earlier.

As mentioned in the JLR TOPIx information on the Xenon headlamps......

“Pools of water and high levels of condensation would indicate that the lamps sealing has been compromised. Check for damage and inspect the condition of caps and breathers.”

“Make sure that bulb covers are correctly installed and make sure that all breathers (tubes or membrane patches) are free from dirt and debris and are fitted correctly as these can all lead to the formation of condensation. If any of these are determined to be the cause of the condensation, measures should be taken to dry out the lamps and to make sure that the bulb covers are installed correctly.”

https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=61271#p61271

 

[giusemanuel]

Of course I'll keep you updated, tomorrow I'll take the car to the dealership to change the headlights.
But is it necessary to remove the bumper to change the headlights?
Unfortunately, the mechanics here are not very careful.

Yes, the caps are very similar to the ones you linked. Another friend which had condensation tell me that dealer has cleaned his headlight from vents and after no longer had the problem

 

[RPSN]

If your car’s going into a Jaguar main dealership for the LED headlamps replacement, they should know what they’re doing.

The Xenon headlamps on my car can be removed without taking the bumper off. They’re secured by three bolts, two at the top of the headlamp (front and back) and one underneath. The top two bolts are accessed from under the bonnet and the one underneath by removing the plastic cover from inside the front wheel arch (see attached pics). I’m not sure if the LED headlamps are similar?

Also found this link.....” How to remove the headlight unit of a F-Type?” https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f-type-x152-72/how-remove-headlight-unit-f-type-193930/

As you've said that the mechanics there are not very careful, it's worth insisting that a member of staff (service manager etc) thoroughly inspects the car with you beforehand, in case anything untoward happens whilst it's with them. Some good dealerships do this as standard practice and some don't.

The caps on the LED headlamps pic that you posted earlier are similar to the Xenon headlamps (although smaller) and they also have the tabs on them for ease of removal.

Good to hear that the issue your friend had with headlamp condensation was rectified by the dealer.....looks like it can sometimes be sorted out?

Hope it goes well for you tomorrow

 

[giusemanuel]

The day before yesterday I went to the dealer to change the headlights. I didn't want to write right away because I wanted to test the car in these two days. Despite the fairly humid weather it seems that for now there are no condensation problems.

Dealer took about 2 hours to change both headlights and it looks like the job has been done quite well. Dealer also attached the official diagnosis (Pathfinder) to perform the coding of the headlights.
Dealer performed also a scan asking me if the ecu had the map changed because the computer reported an error to the engine ecu software. He told me that this error is reported when the ECU is modded. I have not changed it but I am not sure if the previous owner has changed it.
Today engine amber light came on in fixed mode.

but I'm coming out of thread so maybe it's better that I open another one.

Thanks @Rpsn

 

[kevc]

That could just be low battery charge if they've had it on a lot testing the lights without the engine running.

 

[RPSN]

The day before yesterday I went to the dealer to change the headlights. I didn't want to write right away because I wanted to test the car in these two days. Despite the fairly humid weather it seems that for now there are no condensation problems.

Dealer took about 2 hours to change both headlights and it looks like the job has been done quite well. Dealer also attached the official diagnosis (Pathfinder) to perform the coding of the headlights.
Dealer performed also a scan asking me if the ecu had the map changed because the computer reported an error to the distribution chain. He told me that this error is reported when the ECU is modded. I have not changed it but I am not sure if the previous owner has changed it.
Today engine amber light came on in fixed mode.

but I'm coming out of thread so maybe it's better that I open another one.

Thanks @Rpsn

Glad you’re satisfied with the work done by the dealer and that there’s no condensation showing in the new LED headlights so far. Will be interesting to hear whether or not they remain that way?

Yes, it’s better to open a new thread on your other queries.

 

[giusemanuel]

@kevc
When i arrived to dealer the car was still connected to the external power supply.

@RPSN
will keep you updated on the condensation of my headlights.

I’ll open a new thread for other question, however I was wrong, it is not an error of the chain but a software error of the engine ecu.

 

[RPSN]

@RPSN
will keep you updated on the condensation of my headlights.

I’ll open a new thread for other question, however I was wrong, it is not an error of the chain but a software error of the engine ecu.

Cheers

Hope you get the other issue sorted out.