(Another) Leaking tailgate (sorry)

[Freeliner]

Hi All, my first post after viewing several very helpful post on here in the past. Many thanks to all contributors.
Ok ... several weeks ago my phone link, Sat Nav, and Audio all stopped working. Thinking it may be a fuse problem I attempted to access the luggage area, only to find that tailgate release wasn't working either. I finally managed to open tailgate by using a metal rod + a fashioned hook (from a clothes hanger) to pull the emergency release cord (by passing rod/hook under parcel shelf from the drivers seat!). On removing luggage pre-formed well to access fuse box I found that area to be flooded to a depth of 2-3cm of rusty water. Area was dried out but a lot of damage has been done to the wiring loom (that goes from luggage area fuse box and across rear of vehicle) but that's unfortunately a job for Jaguar. But before taking vehicle in for repair I set about trying to establish the source of the leak.
Drips were coming from the slated area in the right (OSR for UK) interior trim panel, close to the O/S courtesy light, so this panel, rear panel, and central flooring were removed. See second picture below ...'X' marks the 'drip spot'. So I then set about checking the seals, drainage channels etc but could find nothing obviously at fault. Next I decided to apply tape to joint area between tailgate and ROS panel, then between the roof and tailgate etc ...to seal those joints in a process of elimination ... and got nowhere. It still leaked (with the parcel shelf removed I was able to pass pieces of blue 'test papers' over and between vehicle seats and place them in 'drip spot X'). I eventually ended up with every joint/seam covered, and it still dripped (we've had plenty of rain to do tests eh!). So I changed tape to gaffer tape ...and it's still leaking (see first picture).
So, I know that water always runs downhill ...but other than that, I'm totally flummoxed. Any thought? ATBA Terry

 

[CSGMART]

Hi and welcome.

Lots of useful information on this thread - https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7783

Good luck - I believe the fix is relatively simple, if it's the clips mentioned in the thread.

 

[stefan9107]

Based on where the drip is I'd say it is likely the same as what I had where it was coming through where the white clip inserts through the frame of the car under the duct (see the above thread). Mine was originally showing the leak in the same place but on the opposite side.

If you take a look at the thread above that CSGMART posted, it has a lot of pictures over multiple pages that show where the leak was on mine and other peoples. I am surprised it's getting through still with all that tape on though.

 

[RPSN]

Next I decided to apply tape to joint area between tailgate and ROS panel, then between the roof and tailgate etc ...to seal those joints in a process of elimination ... and got nowhere. It still leaked (with the parcel shelf removed I was able to pass pieces of blue 'test papers' over and between vehicle seats and place them in 'drip spot X'). I eventually ended up with every joint/seam covered, and it still dripped (we've had plenty of rain to do tests eh!). So I changed tape to gaffer tape ...and it's still leaking (see first picture).
So, I know that water always runs downhill ...but other than that, I'm totally flummoxed. Any thought? ATBA Terry

Hi and welcome to the forum.

If water is still leaking into the boot after you sealing those areas with tape, it has probably built up inside the various channels and is slowly working through. The clips in the tailgate channel have a rubber seal on them which is supposed to seal against the bodywork. Not sure if you've seen this but there's some excellent information about it here....https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=49893#p49893

Although this water leak was in a different location to where yours is, if all else fails it reports that a perished boot/trunk vent was the cause, explained here....

https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3141

https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=29814#p29814

https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=64349#p64349

 

[Freeliner]

Thanks RPSN for that detailed reply. I think I've previously gone over those threads that you've highlighted, but I shall do so again. Again, thanks.
BTW ... The leak only occurs during rain, and then stops soon after the rain ceases. All internal drips cease with 20-30mins of the rain stopping. The channel that receives the tailgate remains mostly dry (a small amount of rain water naturally enters it if the wet tailgate is lifted). It's seeming to defy logic at the moment!
Weird.

 

[RPSN]

As it can be difficult to trace where these water leaks are coming from, I’d start by sealing the clip above the drip area marked ‘X’ in your pic (below) and also the other clips along the underside of that tailgate channel (check if there's one under the C-Pillar trim). Before doing so, press down on the plastic/rubber ‘U’ channel to ensure the clips are fully inserted. This will be easier than removing it and sealing the clips from above.

You need a good sealant and I can highly recommend 'CT1 Sealant & Construction Adhesive' which also seals underwater. I have it in black which comes in very handy for numerous jobs on my cars and around the house. It takes up to 72 hours to fully cure depending on conditions...

https://www.ct1.com/our-products/ct1/

https://www.toolstation.com/ct1-adhesive-sealant/p21735

After you've sealed those clips test again to see if the leaking has stopped.

In your process of elimination, you could also try taping over the roof channel on the nearside (LH) as you've already done it on the offside (RH). Also the chrome trim (window finisher) on both sides of the car as marked in the pic below. If the leak still occurs after doing that perhaps the gaffer tape you have used to seal the gaps is allowing water in?
https://echotape.com/duct-tape/duct-tape-vs-gaffers-tape-make-sure-youre-using-the-right-tool-for-the-job/.....

“Gaffer’s Tape: Water resistant; able to resist high heat temperatures
Ideal for: Securing cables and props that are exposed to the bright, hot lights of camera work. Please note: Because it does not have a polyethylene backing, gaffer’s tapes are not waterproof, but the barrier properties in the coated cloth backing does make gaffer’s tape moisture resistant in most cases.”

I doubt that it’s a case of ‘capillary action’ whereby liquids can travel horizontally or vertically against the force of gravity in small spaces.

Out of curiosity, is the main rubber boot seal correctly seated all around and does it look ok i.e. no tears, obstructions or flat spots etc?

With regards to the boot ventilation outlets that I mentioned earlier which are located in the rear quarter panel lower extension, TOPIx states there is one each side but I’ve yet to see a pic of one from the offside (RH). Being as you’ve removed the offside boot trim side panel would you be able to provide one after you've finished testing for the leak and the tape has been removed? I've attached a pic of mine from the nearside (LH).

 

[Freeliner]

Hi RPSN ... many thanks for your reply. Most informative. My tailgate has been closed since your last message (Wed 10th) as I've been 'otherwise engaged', and somewhat despondent, so haven't been back to this site or continued my investigations. But after reading your message above earlier I removed the gaffer tape (which was dry underneath, thankfully), checked the clip, and 'voila'. I've now established that most, if not all, drips are falling (apparently directly) from the white clip, as blue-arrowed in your photo above, closest to the O/S (right) courtesy light. I say just "most" as although I can't find evidence of moisture above that clip/stud, I can't be 100% certain. We had rain earlier and although the top surface of the actual channel that's held by said clip (that receives the tailgate edge) was bone dry, that one clip/stud was wet and dripping. The channel appears to be 100% fine, with no rips, damage, or obvious seal issues/breaks, and appears to be securely seated in the bodywork. But water appears to be flowing underneath the channel, between the plastic channel and the steel bodywork that holds it.
So how might that be possible? Is rainwater running between the channel and the bodywork ok/acceptable. Any thoughts on that??
I don't fancy the no doubt complex job of lifting out/up that channel, so firstly I intend to Gorilla tape over and around that one stud and then see what happens then. If that proves that 100% of the leak into the luggage area is coming from around that clip/stud, then it may be a garage job, as I'm not sure that the stud can be securely sealed from below??
Below is a photo of my O/S vent grill (I think that's what you requested).

 

[RPSN]

Good to hear you’ve established the leak is coming from that white clip.

Water can still get under the large ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber guttering which is located below the tailgate and this is normal. I recently explained about it here https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=80838#p80838 and I’ve copied it over for you as follows....

“Bear in mind that water can still get beneath the guttering from areas such as the small gap near the roof and where the tailgate struts are secured against the bodywork (both shown in your pics). Even so, any water that enters will run down and out of the drain holes at the rear of the boot (located along the same section as where the washer fluid is topped up) unless of course some of it leaks into the boot caused by the sealed clips that hold the guttering against the bodywork.”

If you don’t fancy lifting up or removing the guttering (not too difficult), follow the instructions in my previous reply and seal the clips from beneath. Seal all the ones you can see and also check under the C-Pillar trim located a bit further up than your leaking white clip. There’s a lot of poor sealants about so I highly recommend you use the CT1 Sealant & Construction Adhesive that I talked about previously. It can take up to 72 hours to fully cure depending on conditions. Once you've done this, do your testing to ensure there's no further leaks. If so, all well and good with no 'garage job' costs

Many thanks for the photo of your Coupe offside boot ventilation outlet. This confirms the TOPIx info I have which says there is one each side (nearside and offside).

 

[stefan9107]

Hi RPSN ... many thanks for your reply. Most informative. My tailgate has been closed since your last message (Wed 10th) as I've been 'otherwise engaged', and somewhat despondent, so haven't been back to this site or continued my investigations. But after reading your message above earlier I removed the gaffer tape (which was dry underneath, thankfully), checked the clip, and 'voila'. I've now established that most, if not all, drips are falling (apparently directly) from the white clip, as blue-arrowed in your photo above, closest to the O/S (right) courtesy light. I say just "most" as although I can't find evidence of moisture above that clip/stud, I can't be 100% certain. We had rain earlier and although the top surface of the actual channel that's held by said clip (that receives the tailgate edge) was bone dry, that one clip/stud was wet and dripping. The channel appears to be 100% fine, with no rips, damage, or obvious seal issues/breaks, and appears to be securely seated in the bodywork. But water appears to be flowing underneath the channel, between the plastic channel and the steel bodywork that holds it.
So how might that be possible? Is rainwater running between the channel and the bodywork ok/acceptable. Any thoughts on that??
I don't fancy the no doubt complex job of lifting out/up that channel, so firstly I intend to Gorilla tape over and around that one stud and then see what happens then. If that proves that 100% of the leak into the luggage area is coming from around that clip/stud, then it may be a garage job, as I'm not sure that the stud can be securely sealed from below??
Below is a photo of my O/S vent grill (I think that's what you requested).

Vent.jpg

The leak is coming from exactly the same place mine did as per the thread you were linked earlier https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7783&start=10
I sealed from below and all has been fine since.

 

[Freeliner]

Cheers Stefan, I've ordered some sealant and will apply if Gorilla tape holds, and no other leak spots are found. Many thanks

 

[RPSN]

I've ordered some sealant and will apply if Gorilla tape holds, and no other leak spots are found.

I wouldn’t waste time using Gorilla tape on those clips etc if I were you and do a proper job using good quality sealant instead. Ensure the surfaces are clean and dry before doing so...I usually give a quick wipe over with meths beforehand.

Hopefully you now understand why water will still get underneath the large ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber guttering that is located below the tailgate as explained in my previous reply.

 

[Freeliner]

I've ordered some sealant and will apply if Gorilla tape holds, and no other leak spots are found.

I wouldn’t waste time using Gorilla tape on those clips etc if I were you and do a proper job using good quality sealant instead. Ensure the surfaces are clean and dry before doing so...I usually give a quick wipe over with meths beforehand.

Hopefully you now understand why water will still get underneath the large ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber guttering that is located below the tailgate as explained in my previous reply.

I've got absolutely NO intention of doing less than a "proper job"...which I'll do when the CT1 sealant arrives. I applied Gorilla tape last night (4-ply) as a test .... and this morning I have drenched the car twice, and found no leaks. If you read my post you will see that although I knew water was dripping from said clip, I didn't know for (100%) sure, if water was also coming from further higher up in the OSR panel or not. I taped the clip as a test to establish whether or not that was the single point of ingress. The test has worked very well so far, but I intend to do a more severe test tomorrow. So thank you Mr. Gorilla. I'm looking for certainty, not 'best guess', pal.
The personal uncertainty that I posed was ... yes I know water is running along the space between the plastic tailgate channel and steel bodywork (and presently out through a poorly sealed clip). But is water running through that space part of the vehicle's original (drainage) design. On balance, I believe it was, or at least expected, due to the open holes left in said channel i.e. for hinges/struts.

 

[RPSN]

Glad to hear it and also that you’ve ordered a very good sealant (CT1). I’ve read your posts thoroughly which is why I’ve replied accordingly. Although you’ve thanked Mr. Gorilla, you’ve now got to remove any residue that he’s left before applying the sealant, pal.

The personal uncertainty that you posed was....

The channel appears to be 100% fine, with no rips, damage, or obvious seal issues/breaks, and appears to be securely seated in the bodywork. But water appears to be flowing underneath the channel, between the plastic channel and the steel bodywork that holds it.
So how might that be possible? Is rainwater running between the channel and the bodywork ok/acceptable. Any thoughts on that??

I then explained it in detail....

Water can still get under the large ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber guttering which is located below the tailgate and this is normal. I recently explained about it here https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=80838#p80838 and I’ve copied it over for you as follows....

“Bear in mind that water can still get beneath the guttering from areas such as the small gap near the roof and where the tailgate struts are secured against the bodywork (both shown in your pics). Even so, any water that enters will run down and out of the drain holes at the rear of the boot (located along the same section as where the washer fluid is topped up) unless of course some of it leaks into the boot caused by the sealed clips that hold the guttering against the bodywork.”

Anyway, it seems that you’re well on your way to fixing the leak so happy days!

 

[Freeliner]

Many thanks RPSN, so is the U shaped channel removed via just brute force? The (white) clips appear to be very firmly in place. Do they need hammering out from below?

 

[stefan9107]

Many thanks RPSN, so is the U shaped channel removed via just brute force? The (white) clips appear to be very firmly in place. Do they need hammering out from below?

I believe they are also bonded/glued in place and would need to be put back in the same manner as per this thread - https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5065

 

[RPSN]

Many thanks RPSN, so is the U shaped channel removed via just brute force? The (white) clips appear to be very firmly in place. Do they need hammering out from below?

The ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber channel can be removed by pulling it away from where it’s sealed against the side of the bodywork as I’ve shown on Gareth’s pic here https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=50821#p50821 and then lifting/pulling it up from the channel where the clips are (do not hammer the clips). However, as you've previously said that you don't fancy doing this, you should be able to fix the leak by sealing the clips from below as I've explained to you in this thread.

You've done all the difficult work of removing the boot interior trim panels and tracing the leak so you're almost there now

 

[Freeliner]

Thanks RPSN, I think I definitely will remove the channel as, as you rightly say, I've done all the difficult work already. I've seen above post (thank you Gareth) but wondered if the clips are best dislodged (pushed up) from underneath so as to free the channel up, or ..... clips are pulled out/up by firstly lifting the channel. The clips seem to be hard material and very firmly in place, and my concern has always been not to damage the soft material of the channel. Maybe they come out much easier by pulling them out/up from above (rather than attempting to push them out from below).

 

[RPSN]

You don’t really need to remove the ‘U’ shaped plastic/rubber channel to fix the leak unless you’d prefer to. If so, remember that the tailgate strut also needs to be removed at the lower end only (where it connects to the bodywork). Before doing this, ensure you support the open tailgate as explained here... https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=50821#p50821

You should then be able to pull the channel out without causing any damage to it (even if it takes a bit of force) after releasing it from where it’s sealed against the side of the bodywork. When pulling it out, start from as close to the clips as possible. If it still doesn't budge there’s no harm in giving the clips a push from underneath to see if it helps. If you break any then refer to this thread.... https://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=80301#p80301