Hi Guys,<div><br></div><div>I thought I would bring you up to speed with my winter project !</div><div><br></div><div>Having purchased my F type back in September, I had such a great time driving it and making all that noise ! But the one thing that has really bugged me since getting the car, was the level of Orange Peel in the paint finish. Almost all modern cars suffer from it, due to the way cars are sprayed by robots having a high air flow rate on the clear coat gun.</div><div><br></div><div>To over come this problem I did a lot of research to see if it could be buffed or polished out, no was the straight answer, the only way was for it to be professionally wet sanded. Again much research let me to KDS in Gillingham, Kent, professional detailers, who could do the work but wanted £3600, wow!</div><div><br></div><div>So not wanting to lay out £3600, I decided to see what would be involved in doing it myself. Well again much research and many hours practice on a bonnet purchased from the scrapyard for a tenner, I finally plucked up the courage.</div><div><br></div><div>The biggest issue of all is time, the bonnet on the F type took 18 hours, so you can understand why the detailers charge so much, but having finished the first panel I thought I would share the results.</div><div><br></div><div>Before</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/before.JPG" height="466" width="700" border="0" /> </div><div><br></div><div>After</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/after.JPG" height="466" width="700" border="0" /><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/door_close.JPG" height="466" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div>This is the edge of the bonnet sanded and polished and the door, not sanded.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/bonnet.JPG" height="466" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div>Now it is starting to have a paint job like it should have had !!</div><div><br></div><div>Once the whole car is finished, I will post some pictures in the spring !!</div><div><br></div><div>PS. Please do not attempt this, unless you are practiced at wet sanding, machine buffing and machine polishing !!</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div><br></div><div>Jamie</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
Orange Peel Paint Work
- Thread starter Selborne
- Start date
Hi Jamie,<div>You are certainly braver than I! I have read on a few other forums about people driving straight from the dealers to their detailers to have similar work carried out (Not Jags I might add). I do like cleaning and polishing but taking some wet and dry to the body work is my limit.</div><div><br></div><div>It looks fantastic though and a great way to spend some time in the garage.</div>
Hi Dan,<div>I did do a lot of research and the key is to stay away from the edges and contours and start slowly, it is surprising how hard the clear coat is and once your understand the process, it is reasonably straight forward, but yes you are right, the first rub of the wet and dry does start the heart pumping, but the results are just amazing. When finished I will up load some outdoor whole car shots for interest.</div><div>Cheers for now, Jamie</div>
OK, the F-Type wet sand and polish project is finally over. 110 hours of great fun over the winter in the Garage. Some pictures of the process below including more before and after shots;<div><br></div><div>Before;</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140127_150353.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div>After;</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140127_150356a.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div>A lot of care was needed with the edges and swage lines, so high quality masking tape was used to protect them;</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140201_135401.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div>You can see the Orange peel being removed, with this first pass of the 2000 grit.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140207_142656.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140207_142720.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140207_142808.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div>Again lots of care around the edges,</div><div><br></div><div>So with the 2000 grit wet and dry complete, I then followed with 3000 grit, and 5000 grit, all in the same direction, measuring the paint depth as I went. The starting depth was around 330um and the completed sanding depth averaged around 300um, so it was only the tops of the orange peel that was removed.</div><div><br></div><div>With the sanding completed, I then started buffing and polishing, this used Meguiars products from the professional mirror glaze range, and I used Chemical Guys Pads on my DAS Pro 6 DA polishing machine, the cuts and polishes can be summarised as follows;</div><div><br></div><div>Meguiars #101 Foam Cut used with Orange Pad on body work and yellow pad on bumpers and plastics</div><div>Meguiars #80 Speed Glaze used with Green Pad body and White Pad Bumpers and Plastics</div><div>Meguiars # 7 Show Glaze used with Black Pad</div><div>Meguiars Ultimate Pre Wax Glaze used with Blue Pad.</div><div><br></div><div>Once complete I applied a premium wax, Dodo Juice Supernatural by hand, as seen below;</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140301_114407.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div>and the final results speak for themselves, wow !!</div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140302_165403.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div>The dots you can see, are reflections of screws in the ceiling of the garage <img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140301_131024.jpg" height="525" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/20140309_171601.jpg" height="700" width="525" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/IMG_9774a.jpg" height="240" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/IMG_9766a.jpg" height="466" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/uploads/78/IMG_9777a.jpg" height="271" width="700" border="0" /><br></div><div><br></div><div>Now the car has a shine to match it looks and sound ! Safe Driving !</div><div>Jamie</div>
Hi Geminii,<div>I have to say I was extremely nervous to start with, hence the practice bonnet from the scrapyard, but once I got going, the confidence grew. The best thing I had was the paint depth measuring device, it showed me how much I was removing, and the truth is, that it was just the tops of the orange peel, about 10% of the clear coat depth. Stay away from the edges and swage lines and you will be fine !!</div><div> </div><div>But as you can see from the before and after pictures, the change is nothing short of incredible. I do not have to look at the orange peel every time I wash and wax the car now !!</div><div> </div><div>The other option is to look into a professional service, like KDS in Kent, they offer different packages, from just bonnet and boot wet sand to full wet sands, they range in price from £800 to £3600, but could be an option if you have concerns about your own ability ?</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, keep making as much noise as possible !!</div><div>Jamie</div>
Bummed...just looked at my FType and it has orange peel paint, too. Never heard of this before. I was deliriously happy with my FType before this post. Now, it's going to drive me CRAZY!! I would never attempt to do this on my own. Is this not something that Jaguar should take care of? Did you ask Jaguar to fix it?<div><br></div><div>Thanks, Lorna</div>
Hi Lorna,<div> </div><div>I am really sorry to have brought disappointment to you, </div><div> </div><div>All new cars have it, including Astons and Bentleys, so you are in the same club ! If you want a perfect paint finish it is something you have to do or get done after ownership starts, sadly. THere are many professional detailers who offer the service, and you can have varying levels of removal, depending on how much you want perfect paint. KDS in Kent offer the service and it ranges from £800 to £3600, the basic treatment covers the bonnet and boot and top of the doors, which in most cases is enough. If you do choose a detailer to do it, make sure they have a track record and have examples to show you of past customers, as this is more than a machine polish and buff. KDS have a lot of information about it;</div><div>http://www.kdskeltec.co.uk/price-menu/paint-correction-packages/wet-sand</div><div>Jamie</div>
Hi Jamie! Thanks for the information. I live in the US so I'll ask the Jaguar dealer and the local Bentley dealer in my town for a referral.<div><br></div><div>Also, had to have my rear bushings replaced in my FType last summer. There was a "creaking" noise that I didn't notice right away because I always had the top down and the stereo on! <img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> The metal bushings were replaced with a rubber bushing, I believe. I can post the invoice if you think it would be helpful to others who might have the same problem...or, Jaguar may have corrected the problem by now.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again and have a nice day!</div><div><br></div><div>Lorna</div>
Hi Lorna,<div> </div><div>Sorry I did not note you were from the US, Welcome !</div><div> </div><div>It might be worth opening a new topic in the techincal section of the Forum, for information, this way everybody will know what problem you had !</div><div> </div><div>I am glad to hear that you have the roof down all the time, not quite so easy in the UK, however spring has arrived and we are starting to see some sun <img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> </div><div> </div><div>I have had my F Type since september, no issues so far (fingers crossed)</div><div> </div><div>Kind Regards</div><div> </div><div>Jamie</div>
No worries!<div><br></div><div>I got my FType in July. Sadly, mine has been in storage since October and it is snowing today. It's been a LONG winter and I'm sick of it - one of the worst on record!! Hoping to get it out of storage soon!</div><div><br></div><div>Take care and thanks again! </div><div><br></div><div>Lorna</div>
Hi Lorna,<div> </div><div>I think your super cold bad winter has been a great help to us in the UK, as we have had a completely snow free winter, very mild, had a lot of rain in January in the western regions, but in the east where I live it has been warm, very strange, last weekend saw 70 deg F ??</div><div> </div><div>My car was stored for 2 months as they still salted the roads, thinking it might snow.</div><div> </div><div>Little tip when storing your car for more than a month or so, cover the car with a soft cover breathable, fill the fuel tank to the brim with primium fuel (stops condensation in the fuel tank) and pump your tyres up to 50 PSI (stops flat spots), remember to lower them back down before going out !! This way it will be ready for the new season!</div><div> </div><div>Nice talking to you,</div><div> </div><div>Jamie</div><div> </div><div>PS post a picture when you finally get her out !!</div>
Tel
New member
It's such a shame in this mass production era that there is no preparation or finishing. Coachwork on old enamel painted cars used to be beautiful!<div><br></div><div>I will give it a go...I love detailing, it's so rewarding and satisfying. I will be in touch nearer the time regarding depth meter and choice of products. I'm a Zymol man myself, but I guess it's all good stuff so long as it's loaded with Carnuba. </div><div><br></div><div>Would clay barring achieve the same results, albeit a bit slower as I guess it's not so abrasive a sand paper?<br><div><br></div><div>One thing though Jamie, I was always thought that it was best to apply products in a linear fashion to avoid swirls?</div></div>
Hi again Tel,<div><br></div><div>No, claying will not achieve these results, it has to be good old wet and dry, starting at 2000 grit or higher if you are very cautious. The paint depth meter is the best approach and do a panel at a time, that way you do not have the car out of action for a month <img src="http://www.ftypeforums.co.uk/images/converted_files/smileys/smiley17.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue" title="Tongue" /> unless like me you do not drive it over the winter.</div><div><br></div><div>The direction of application is important with certain elements of the process, most specifically the wet and dry, all the polishing is done with a machine, so directional application is not possible and the final finishes such as pure Carnuba wax, it really does not matter, however that said if you do use a polymer based sealant, it is recommended that you do directional layering, as the drying process can leave optical formations on the surface, so horizontal on the top panels and vertical on the side panels.</div><div><br></div><div>I have been experimenting with different high quality waxes and sealants and should be able (in a few weeks) to give a detailed report on my findings, I have one final step to complete and then I should have some results for discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>Keep in touch,</div><div><br></div><div>Jamie</div>
Tel
New member
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jamie,</font><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The more I look at your pictures, the more I admire your results. <img src="http://www.ftypeownersclub.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif" border="0" alt="Clap" title="Clap" /></font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you complete the sanding by hand, and if so, do you just ''feel'' the surface iwhtotu applying pressure?</font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will have to go to a scrappie and buy a modern orange peeled panel.</font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">As I have chosen the Italian Racing Red at a blooming premium, I assume the very same robots and temperatures will be used, so it may be peeled grrr.</font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I remember spraying a car at my friends farm, outside in the summer...an old MGB in BRG. Results were fab...no orange peel, justy the odd horse fly and piece of hay that had to be teased from the paint!</font></div><div> </div>
<edited><editID>Tel</editID><editDate>2014-04-27 16:35:39</editDate></edited>
<edited><editID>Tel</editID><editDate>2014-04-27 16:35:39</editDate></edited>
Hi Tel,<div><br></div><div>Yes all done by hand, with only slight pressure, using a foam sanding block and starting with 2000 grit.</div><div><br></div><div>The practice panel is a good way to start as you will 'feel' how best to proceed. The key is to tape off the swages and edges with high quality masking tape. I use 'Cleanyourcar.co.uk' for all my materials, Tim is the owner and is extremely helpful.</div><div><br></div><div>But be clear on the time, it took me around 110 hours in total over the winter months to complete.</div><div><br></div><div>The other thing I would recommend is a paint depth measuring device, I have the </div><div><span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: Trebuchet, 'Trebuchet MS'; font-size: 18px; font-weight: bold; line-height: normal;">CEM DT-156 Paint Coating Thickness Gauge</span></div><div>, it works very well on the aluminium body panels, but of course the bumpers, nose and boot lid are plastic, so I did these last, once I had the 'feel' for the work.</div><div><br></div><div>Most of the paint is around 110 to 130 um from new and Jaguar recommend that you do not remove more than 10%, however when I did a detail inspection before starting the work, I found that there were areas where the paint was as low as 70 um and at the bottom of the windscreen pillars as low as 40um, so these areas where avoided. when you consider a piece of standard photocopy paper is around 60um it makes you realise how thin modern coatings are.</div><div><br></div><div>The rest of the information regarding cutting compounds and finishing polishes is shown earlier in this post.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, I am just about to start a new post on Waxes and Sealants, Which is best, so look out for this,</div><div><br></div><div>Speak Soon,</div><div><br></div><div>Jamie</div><div><br></div>