New hope for Jaguar?

[WShudds]

Another brand committed to an "all-electric" future has backtracked. Why can't Jag do the same while it still has a name worth something?

https://youtu.be/1L6-vBihwaA?si=-nruzsChm7_zGHc2

 

[NaCl]

I'm curious to know how much of the decision to have an all-electric fleet was dictated by Jaguar or their Tata overlords. After reading up on Jaguar's history, it baffles me that they would be one of the first to go all-in on electric.

Still makes me sad that we never got a chance at getting a production version of the C-X75 to see what Jaguar would be capable of when it comes to making a hybrid powertrain.
They would've been ahead of the curve by years seeing as how we're now starting to get hybrid supercars such as the McLaren Artura, Ferrari 296 & SF90, Lambo Revuelto, and now even in the sports car world, we're seeing Porsche going hybrid with the facelifted 992 911.

Same thing springs to mind with Lotus. Never in a million years would I have expected Lotus, who are famed for Chapman's 'Simplify and add lightness' mantra to come out with a bulky, overweight and overpriced electric SUV. I suspect that was mostly due to their Chinese overlords at Geely.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote
Same thing springs to mind with Lotus. Never in a million years would I have expected Lotus, who are famed for Chapman's 'Simplify and add lightness' mantra to come out with a bulky, overweight and overpriced electric SUV. I suspect that was mostly due to their Chinese overlords at Geely.
[/quote]

Have you heard Chris Harris’ new podcast? Very interesting segment on Lotus. Not particularly complimentary but insightful. Worth a listen

 

[WShudds]

Interesting questions. Geely also owns Volvo so maybe they realised they messed up with Lotus and don't want to lose even more money insisting on all-electric with Volvo? Or could this is just part of China's plan to annihilate the Western car industry...

They knew they could never compete with the West on ICE and started working on EVs 15 years ago. Granted nobody gave them credit until recently but what better way to undermine the Western competition than pushing electric cars as a world-saving alternative through the media, think-tanks, politicians...to create demand for their products and increase its influence?

 

[NaCl]

Have you heard Chris Harris’ new podcast? Very interesting segment on Lotus. Not particularly complimentary but insightful. Worth a listen

Just had a listen through that segment. Very interesting parallels with MG and as Chris implied, it's been a good decision to grow the business with their electric cars, but it's come at the cost of brand heritage.

 

[NaCl]

Granted nobody gave them credit until recently but what better way to undermine the Western competition than pushing electric cars as a world-saving alternative through the media, think-tanks, politicians...to create demand for their products and increase its influence?

Can't forget company car schemes and how cheap it is (relatively speaking) to lease electric cars too, and with Chinese cars being cheaper than the Western models, it's even more of an incentive to choose one of those.

 

[mono-uk]

I would imagine Jaguar are too far down the road of being electric only to back track now unlike most other manufacturers - i doubt most people at Jaguar are happy with the situation

It was always going to be a ballsy move going all electric so soon - time will tel if it was the right decision

Personally i think the only way they will survive is if the government tax the hell out of Chinese imports

i think someone else on here said the same but if a BYD Seal can go just as quick as an Jaguar and go as many miles but be only 30 grand whats the point of a 90 grand Jaguar (for the mass market)

 

[scm]

i think someone else on here said the same but if a BYD Seal can go just as quick as an Jaguar and go as many miles but be only 30 grand whats the point of a 90 grand Jaguar (for the mass market)

They're not going for the mass market, and certanly not be as cheap as £90k.

OTOH, a Tesla is probably quicker than an F-Type (up to 120ish) but I know which I'd rather be in.

 

[MajorTom]

Still makes me sad that we never got a chance at getting a production version of the C-X75 to see what Jaguar would be capable of when it comes to making a hybrid powertrain.
They would've been ahead of the curve by years seeing as how we're now starting to get hybrid supercars such as the McLaren Artura, Ferrari 296 & SF90, Lambo Revuelto, and now even in the sports car world, we're seeing Porsche going hybrid with the facelifted 992 911.

Not to mention what if they built the F-Type the way it was initially designed as the C-X16 concept... it was essentially a V6S based hybrid and presented as far back as 2011. Not a supercar but would have been quite something ahead of its time.

 

[NaCl]

Not to mention what if they built the F-Type the way it was initially designed as the C-X16 concept... it was essentially a V6S based hybrid and presented as far back as 2011. Not a supercar but would have been quite something ahead of its time.

Here's hoping for a future where we might see a hybrid 6+ cylinder sports car from Jaguar. Wishful thinking but if the car industry moves to hybrid instead of all out electric, maybe it could happen...

 

[Kev]

The Chinese manufacturers have financial support from their government, and because of that we tax their imports by 10% when they land on our shores. Yes, we could impose even heftier levies on them but they’d just counter that by increasing the price of everything they manufacturer for us across all industries and goods that we depend on. There’s too much reliance on overseas manufacturing and I think this is going to bite us on our backsides in the not too distant future

Ze Germans, VW, are to be closing a manufacturing plant which is something unheard of. Polestar aren’t in a particularly good shape, possibly because they’re owned by Geely who build their EV on the same production line. The Chinese have quite a stranglehold over a lot of Western Countries and it looks like they’ll be the winners whichever way things go

 

[stefan9107]

This is something that really bothers me and I completely blame Tesla.

Tesla came along as an industry disruptor with in all reality a pretty good idea, excluding some shady business practices and bad build quality. Here is an electric car, it's completely souless, but it's zero emissions (we won't get into manufacturing for now), silent, great for town driving and if you can charge at home etc etc. A percentage of people sign on, a few other manufacturers make their own electric cars for competition, and there is this little sub-sector of expensive zero emissions cars that fit a purpose that some select people love. Good for the planet, good for the people that like them.

Instead, the governments and eco-zealots got hold of this idea and decide WE MUST ALL DO IT NOW! Rather than just being realistic and improving existing technologies and using hybrids to help reduce emissions in a more gradual way, they've all just gone "NOPE! THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION!" I feel sorry for the manufacturers in all honesty. I know they are evil corporate destroyers of the world and fat cats out to make a quick buck off the poor man etc etc, but they and the general public have been forced into this against their will and goal posts keep moving.

The reality of it is this. Very few people actually want these things. The vast vast vast majority are only driving them because of the company car tax rules. If those benefits didn't exist, most people (myself included), would not be driving an electric car. Most people agree we should be doing our best to help the environment, but in a gradual way that makes sense. So I blame Tesla for everything.


EDIT - Holy shit I just realised... this is why Top Gear sabotaged Tesla with the roadster all those years ago! They were trying to save us!

 

[scm]

So I blame Tesla for everything.

And to prove Tesla's environmental credentials they produce a resource hungry monstrosity like the CyberUrinal?

 

[mono-uk]

I agree with you, plus electric has to be generated somewhere - we arent allowed nuclear power stations they are too scarey so you are still probably burning a fossil fuel

I do love the simplicity of an electric car, but there should also be more investment in synthetic fuels, if not for street cars but for heavy machinery and planes and such like

This is something that really bothers me and I completely blame Tesla.

Tesla came along as an industry disruptor with in all reality a pretty good idea, excluding some shady business practices and bad build quality. Here is an electric car, it's completely souless, but it's zero emissions (we won't get into manufacturing for now), silent, great for town driving and if you can charge at home etc etc. A percentage of people sign on, a few other manufacturers make their own electric cars for competition, and there is this little sub-sector of expensive zero emissions cars that fit a purpose that some select people love. Good for the planet, good for the people that like them.

Instead, the governments and eco-zealots got hold of this idea and decide WE MUST ALL DO IT NOW! Rather than just being realistic and improving existing technologies and using hybrids to help reduce emissions in a more gradual way, they've all just gone "NOPE! THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION!" I feel sorry for the manufacturers in all honesty. I know they are evil corporate destroyers of the world and fat cats out to make a quick buck off the poor man etc etc, but they and the general public have been forced into this against their will and goal posts keep moving.

The reality of it is this. Very few people actually want these things. The vast vast vast majority are only driving them because of the company car tax rules. If those benefits didn't exist, most people (myself included), would not be driving an electric car. Most people agree we should be doing our best to help the environment, but in a gradual way that makes sense. So I blame Tesla for everything.


EDIT - Holy shit I just realised... this is why Top Gear sabotaged Tesla with the roadster all those years ago! They were trying to save us!

 

[WShudds]

Agree with most of what stefan9107 said except that carmakers played along to the politicians' tune without questioning or thinking about what China would do. They could have dug the heels and push back. Instead they went all woke about it trying to brainwash everyone and make people ignore all the shortcomings for the sake of the planet. So yeah Tesla was disruptive but China will be absolutely ruthless.

I fear for the future of the entire industry that generates millions of jobs, direct and indirect. With the likes of VW making 2.3% profit on every EV sale down from 3.8% a year ago, we're on the brink of seeing car brands disappear like many popular, traditional High Street shops started going in 2008.

 

[pirateprentice]

With the New Jag 'architecture' being all-electric from the start, I imagine it would be almost insurmountable to add ICE at this stage without a lengthy redesign.
Perhaps the soon-to-be-revealed GT will be so awesomely fabulous that the £150K market won't be able to resist it. It's a long shot, though.

 

[scm]

With the likes of VW making 2.3% profit on every EV sale down from 3.8% a year ago, ...

It surprises me that people still buy cars from those convicted criminals.

 

[WShudds]

With the New Jag 'architecture' being all-electric from the start, I imagine it would be almost insurmountable to add ICE at this stage without a lengthy redesign.
Perhaps the soon-to-be-revealed GT will be so awesomely fabulous that the £150K market won't be able to resist it. It's a long shot, though.

It personally struggle to see how anyone could justify spending that amount of money on an EV GT that's guaranteed to lose 75% of its value in 5 years. It will follow the Taycan and be another company's car that gets dumped after 2 years.

If not even the Porsche badge could save the Taycan, I can't imagine Jag's could do better even if it comes with all the fake noises and fake gear changing like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N

 

[Kev]

My Chiropractor bought himself a new Taycan, costs around £300 a month so cheaper than a leased BMW 3-Series, tax deductible, gets written down each year so that after 'n' years it's effectively worth £0.0, sells if for £40k and pockets the money. What's not to like?

And when did cars get so ridiculously expensive?! You hear YouTuber's saying "Oh, at £87,000 it's good value". I'd want a house in the countryside for that money. With a shrubbery. And a picket fence

 

[Cluck]

And when did cars get so ridiculously expensive?! You hear YouTuber's saying "Oh, at £87,000 it's good value". I'd want a house in the countryside for that money. With a shrubbery. And a picket fence

My father's RAV4 is classed as a 'luxury car'. A RAV4 FFS.

And funnily enough, back in 1999 my detached house in a village cost almost exactly that figure you quote. And even then it seemed expensive to me.